Dr.Grass said:
Joelcool7 said:
Runa216 said:
alrighty, let's see if I can get this train back on track here.
Original post was saying (in a nicer way) that if Religion wants to continue to have an influence on the world of politics, science, and society, it should be expected to withstand the same criticism and scrutiny that all other aspects of our world has.
Instead of offering proper, intelligent insight to the issue, the thread has essentially turned into the precise thing I was hoping it wouldn't: Proving my point. Instead of offering philisophical insight to the origin of the universe or whatever, we have a lot of christians claiming that this criticism is somehow offensive and are trying to get the thread locked, and the rest are just trying to divert attention to disproving different scientific theories.
In an odd way, this thread has further proven my point: Religion collapses under pressure and is incapable of standing up to rationality without reverting to "let's see who can scream the loudest" to determine what people believe.
Also, for all the people arguing evolution, I have to facepalm. I may not know all the intricate details of evolution offhand, but even the slightest bit of research and proper scientific inquiry will prove to you that evolution is real. Anyone denying this fact is...well, they're not only ignorant but aggressively so.
"Don't bother me with the facts, I've already made up my mind." |
Well this is a start, alittle better wording. Maybe you should edit your initial post to make it more welcoming and less flame bait. Also to my knowledge I'm the only one who reported this thread. Many users who agreed with me aren't Christian's either.
But on topic. Religion is already held to the same standards as everything else on earth.
As Kantor said science doesn't disprove religion or prove it. Many of the scientists who created the basic knowledge we follow today were Christian. (1)As I said the majority of scientists around the globe believe in a God, saying that religion isn't held to the same standard as science is a fallacy. Science and religion go hand in hand.
Most people who believe in God, aren't complete moron's. Its not like they didn't think about the decision or research it. Its not like each and everyone of them is uneducated illiterates.
Their is alot of evidence to support the various faiths.(2) Archeological and historical evidence over flows. Scientific evidence doesn't disprove it so people base their beliefs on what is proven and experiances they have had themselves.
Also again with this whole evolution crap. Evolution is a series of theories which started with Darwin's theory of evolution. Some of these theories hold water others do not. To stereotype and include all the theories as Evolution and say its fact is really niave.
(3)I believe in Micro Evolution and not MacroEvolution. I believe that in some cases convergent evolution also occurs. In biology in University I learned about a (4)dozen different evolution theories. Though I don't remember them all this knowledge really keeps me from saying I believe or don't believe in Evolution.
Which theories of evolution do you believe in? Why do you believe in these theories and how do these theories disprove the existance of God? You say Evolution is fact and such so which theories are fact and such?
Religion doesn't collapse under pressure. if it did it wouldn't be around anymore. The users here have responded to your questions fairly well infact (5)even non-Christian users in this thread have provided insight into religious beliefs.
Your final quote about facts I'm not sure exactly who your qouting but I'd be happy to see these facts. I'm sure you know way more then my bio proffesor and all the teachers that have taught me science over the years. You probably also know more then the majority of scientists since they believe in God and you obviously have a better understanding of science then they do.
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1. FALSE
2. Non-specific statement with no explanation or proof. What are you possibly saying!?
3. This belief is (imo) quite justified. If one studies breeding then the 'breaking point' is always encountered. Fair statement.
4. Erm, what? They all say the same things, but different formulations are presented due to a lack of data at this point in time. Non-sensicle statement.
5. The superiority attitude of the Western man is pathetic.
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1. Alright prove that the majority of scientists around the globe are Athiests? Considering the majority of the worlds population believe in a diety and the fact that their are thousands of middle eastern Muslim scientists, African Christian scientists and scientists from accross Europe. Infact even in North America their are thousands of Christian and other religious scientists.How in the world can you claim that as false? Just because their is a very vocal minority in North America and Western Europe does not mean that those scientists speak for everyone in the scientific community.
Infact I have met several Christian scientists, even more Agnostic scientists but only one Athiest scientist. My prof was an agnostic and every marine biologist and such I talk to and zoologist none of them are athiests. I wanted to become a zoologist at one time, I tried very hard to get to know these scientists.
Of course that means you have to consider biologists scientists, which they are. Fact is that I live in Canada and if their are very few athiest ones in western Canada I highly doubt that they are the majority in the rest of the world. Especially when you include the religious countries.
As many biologists I talked to explained it is stupid to believe in or not believe in a God. Any true scientist knows that you can't prove or disprove the existance and having faith in the existance or lack of existance is pure ignorance. That being said I also met Christian biologists and scientists.
2. I should have been more clear. I was refering to the basis of the faiths and not the existance of God. Archeological evidence is over whelming that a man named Jesus lived in the Roman empire and taught people, he was also widely proven to have been killed and his followers text written only 30 years after his demise has been proven to be historically accurate. Also the prophet Mohammed also is a historical figure and all historical evidence supports that he lived and taught the Quran. He did amazing things and history backs this up.
Even the most die hard athiests cannot possibly deny that Jesus lived and died and that he claimed to be God. Some think his body was found recently but nobody can deny his existance, it is historic fact.
3. Glad you understand this
4. Their were several theories of evolution that were utter crap. Like the theory that if you are smart that these traits would pass onto your child and he would become smarter. Their was also a theory that animals could evolve within generations example a crab moves from one part of the ocean to another part in search of food, it needs bigger pincers to survive, so its offspring would obviously be born with bigger pincers. That theory was created around Darwins time but swiftly proven false. Other theories about human evolution were also proven false. Evolution is to evolve as such any scientific theory about something evolving is a form of evolution. Macro and Micro evolution are the two main theories today and as I said I believe in Micro and not Macro. They all are about evolution but that does not mean all the theories all hold weight.
5. I don't understand what non-Christian's have to do with western superiority. You lost me, I was simply saying that not only Christians were offended since the OP directly stated it was Christians who were whining and complaining. It has nothing to do with the west at all, Just trying to get a point across!
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