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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Bitterness in the Wii fandom?

Carl2291 said:

Sales of over a million are good. I never said it wasn't good.

What i was picking at, was how many titles there are and how many sales they have gained combined...

Should i get the biggest 3rd party core titles from PS3 and 360 to show you the sales, and give another reason why they should/are staying on those consoles?

No, you should get me the list of big, core third party titles that performed badly.  You said the audience doesn't like them, prove it.

While you are at it, you should probably take a look at this too.

Demotruk said:

They also amount to two two-year-late ports, two unarcadey rail shooters and a title that's released only in Japan and has outsold every HD game bar one.



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Carl2291 said:

Sales of over a million are good. I never said it wasn't good.

What i was picking at, was how many titles there are and how many sales they have gained combined...

Should i get the biggest 3rd party core titles from PS3 and 360 to show you the sales, and give another reason why they should/are staying on those consoles?

Sure, give us some straight up, apple v. apple comparisons. Big effort, mainstream titles, if one is an established IP so should the other, etc. No gimped or old ports, no niche titles that only the wilfully ignorant would compare to the big HD games.



A game I'm developing with some friends:

www.xnagg.com/zombieasteroids/publish.htm

It is largely a technical exercise but feedback is appreciated.

.Alterego-X said:

I have a strange feeling. 

Maybe it is just me whose perceptions changed, but I could swear, that nowadays the whole Nintendo community, and not just on this site, is a lot more supportive to Nintendo and hostile to 3rd parties than ever before, for example, a year ago.

 

In the past, there was cheerful optimism about all upcoming core third party games, and some blaming of Nintendo for not helping to get even more third party games. 

Nowadays, everyone starts to sound like Malstrom: "The Industry Must Die!", "None of them could make any good enough games!",  "Everything on-rails sucks!"

Even on generic core news sites, like Eurogamer, a comment pointing out how retarded Ubisoft is, and their best franchises should have Wii versions, can get voted up. 

Is it just me, or there is something in the winds?

Your perception is correct, WII fans (the Ones on the forums) are filled with envy and hypocresy, they want the games and third party support on the WII that the HD systems and the PC get. But the Irony of it is that nobody bought a WII to play those kinds of games, they got it to play nintendo games (or how they say Nintendo Like Quality Games)  and the shovelware that theres is on the system. But third parties are not nintendo, they have no obligation with the WII.  The WII is using a third rate console (technology wise) but they feel entitled to demand first and second rate (technology wise) games made custom to the WII, Just because the WII has sold more than the other consoles.

 

The funny thing in all of this, is that is just a fraction of WII owners that care about this, because the casuals consumers that are buying all those WII systems dont care about that, is just the hardcore WII owners that instead of getting the system that has the games and the content that they desire want to demand in every thread and every forum that all publishers make the games on the system they have.

 

My advice if you want third party support and games like the ones on the HD system and PC, then you should buy a PC or 360/ps3 and stop complaining. You dont deserve anymore than what you are getting, and in a content driven Industry the gamers follow the games that they want to play no the other way around. I love the fact that nintendo is growing the Industry and making gaming a more accepted social activity but the actions of this small fraction of WII forum dwellers are pathetic.



Wyrdness said:
Carl2291 said:
Innervate said:
Carl2291 said:
Innervate said:
Carl2291 said:
guiduc said:
BladeOfGod said:
they are just jealous cuz they're not getting Batman AA, RE5, DMC4, Bioshock, MW2 ( maybe in 2014 ), AC 2, Bayonetta and lots of other awesome 3rd party games

Could you stop trolling here?

If you were in that situation, maybe you too you would be angry. We just don't get the games we deserve. We can only count on Nintendo, unfortunately.

That's the thing though. Why do you automatically "deserve" those games? Because of the Wii sales?

The bigger install base having the best 3rd party support has always been the case, why is it suddenly a problem now that Nintendo is back on top? It's a little thing called 'common sense'; a bigger install base means more potential sales.

The bigger install base isn't seen as the Wii, it is seen as the (as the industry puts it)... "HD Twins". Which have a greater market share than Wii, and also share a whole bunch of the same "core" fanbase.

You're making the mistake in not taking into account multiple console ownership. Even ignoring that, like others have stated the Wii could have the same market share as the PS2 and would still have the same support. We have already pointed out the many flaws in your argument, so if you do not wish to revise it I don't see a point in continuing this argument.

Why should i take into account "multiple console ownership"? The fact is, HD has a greater marketshare than Wii. That's why the majority of games releasing on the 2 consoles are shared.

No it wouldn't stay the same, because if it had that marketshare it would have the mix of all fans/gamers... Just like PS2 did. Developers would HAVE to support it.

What flaws?...


You should take it into account because numerous people own both 360/PS3s so in effect your logic is flawed, if the are 30m 360s sold and 20m PS3s it doesn't mean that the are 50m potential customers which is why your attempt to group them together to mask market share is coming off a bit silly.

The fact is there are more PS3's and 360's out there than Wii's. There is a bigger PS360 marketshare than there is Wii marketshare. Fact.



                            

LordTheNightKnight said:
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
Metallicube said:
Alterego-X said:

I have a strange feeling. 

Maybe it is just me whose perceptions changed, but I could swear, that nowadays the whole Nintendo community, and not just on this site, is a lot more supportive to Nintendo and hostile to 3rd parties than ever before, for example, a year ago.

 

In the past, there was cheerful optimism about all upcoming core third party games, and some blaming of Nintendo for not helping to get even more third party games. 

Nowadays, everyone starts to sound like Malstrom: "The Industry Must Die!", "None of them could make any good enough games!",  "Everything on-rails sucks!"

Even on generic core news sites, like Eurogamer, a comment pointing out how retarded Ubisoft is, and their best franchises should have Wii versions, can get voted up. 

Is it just me, or there is something in the winds?

Simple case of every action has an equal and opposite reaction.. Industry has turned hostile towards Nintendo and its fans, so its fans have responded by turning hostile to the industry.

Well considering the 'industry' (as in third parties) really started doing this on the N64, its actually been going on for well over 10 years.  The fact that Nintendo fans have been putting up with it this long is pretty amazing.  I mean, we went an entire system (GameCube) pretty much going 'good games are coming, we can wait'.  And now we've gone 3 YEARS thinking 'The Wii is outselling everything, third parties will eventually make the switch'.  But instead, third parties have done every thing possible to use, skip or even blatantly blame the Wii for bad support.  This is no longer something even a 'casual' fan can overlook.  The third parties are purposefully skipping over Nintendo systems.  Even to the point of some of those companies losing money to do it.

The thing is many of us knew Nintendo was slipping with those systems. The Wii is a success, and when the third parties are refusing to reward that success with proper support, and reward the HD systems for losing billions, I personally would like to smack some heads.

But I personally wouldn't call the N64 or the GC Nintendo 'slipping'  On the contrary, I would call it Nintendo trying to cater to the fans.  Focusing on graphics, better outputs (for their time) and everything else.  The N64 was the better system graphically and the GC was on par with the XBOX.  In all ways, Nintendo was in the position of the 'HD' systems of today.  Yet it didn't get the third party support.  Now Nintendo took the opposite approach, going low tech, high profit like the PSX, PS2 and got the rewards like those systems did while the other systems took the path of the N64/GC and are losing marketshare/money.  Still, Nintendo is being shunned by third parties.

I think we've been given a clear sign by third parties and the fans.  Fans will go to the cheaper system, but third parties just hate Nintendo.



Six upcoming games you should look into:

 

  

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Johann said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
theprof00 said:

famousringo said:
Let me tell youa story of two delis, located across the street from each other. The Wii Deli specializes in club sandwiches, and the HD Deli makes great big deluxe submarine sandwiches.

Threepee, a sandwich maker working at HD Deli, is having a hard time making ends meet. He makes a mean submarine sandwich, but there just aren't always enough people hungry for a submarine sandwich to pay the bills.

Threepee looks across the street, and sees people lined up to get into Wii Deli. Seeing dollar signs, Threepee walks across the street and asks the proprietor if he could use another sandwich maker. The propietor agrees, noting that he's having trouble meeting demand and customers like variety.

So Threepee starts selling sandwiches, only he can't afford to buy all the ingredients that he puts into his submarine sandwiches. That should be okay, because if these people wanted a submarine sandwich, they'd be across the street anyway. He doesn't want to compete with the propietor's club sandwiches, because he thinks people will just turn up their nose and buy from him. So Threepee makes cheese sandwiches: Just a couple pieces of Wonderbread with a slice of processed cheese in the middle.

At first, things go well. Customers are tired of waiting in line for club sandwiches, so they try a cheese sandwich for a little variety. Threepee thinks this is great, and starts making more and more cheese sandwiches.

But the customers aren't enthused. Where's the tomato? The turkey? It's a little unsatisfying. So they go back to waiting in line for club sandwiches.

Threepee's response to this development is anger. He's spent a lot of money on Wonderbread and processed cheese. Rather than trying to make club sandwiches, or coming up with a sandwich that's different, but just as satisfying, Threepee angrily blames the customers of the Wii Deli for not buying his sandwiches. He tells them that he thinks they're ignorant people who don't even like sandwiches and storms out of the deli.

Now tell me, do the customers of the Wii Deli have any reason to find Threepee annoying?

Except that grilled cheese is delicious, and when he throws in some chicken or tuna or tomato, people say "whatever, it's not a wiideli club sandwich". So, he tries making some wiideli sandwiches after thorough testing to suit the townspeople's tastes. So, he makes 3 new sandiwches and a lot of people buy them. He tries making some more new ones and people like them, but he only makes a few cents on every sandwich. But that's ok, he has established a brand and still has his 3 sandwiches. The next month, wiideli starts a new promotion: "Re-introducing the original sandwich". Threepee's sales drop into the toilet. Threepee looks at the situation and says "fine, I'll just sell exactly what they were just selling a month ago". Except nobody buys them.

Frustrated, he starts looking at his options. He then realizes that they live on an island in the pacific, and there are only 10 possible ingredients located there. He remembers that he already tried all the other combinations and summizes that he should try just putting more of each ingredient in each sandwich. So, he goes to his distributor and they tell him, "sorry, nobody is allowed to exceed the allowed amount. Sandwiches cannot exceed a certain weight, and you are already pushing the limits". So, threepee decides to move to the mainland. Even on the boat, the club sandwiches are three times bigger and are made from a selection of 50 ingredients. Completely exhausted, he wonders why he moved to the island in the first place.

Threepee moves back to the mainland and works for the big submarine sandwich empire, takes out a loan to buy 100 new ingredients and introduces his biggest sandwich yet, with many Lairs and Lairs of meats and cheeses, and even adds some expensive rare giant enemy crabmeat.  When he releases his new sandwich, he invites all the food critics to come try it out, and lets them now that there's a stupid island out there full of morons who wouldn't know good sandwiches if they crawled up their ass, died, and blamed Wii Fit.

Threepee's sandwich tastes like shit, costs too much, and makes one of the food critics vomit.  Another critic says "Hey aren't you that cheese sandwich moron who said we don't know what good sandwiches are?"  Sandwich-goers of all creeds abandon him.  Threepee is now homeless.  And as he wanders the street looking for crumbs, he can look off into the Pacific, and see a great island building a glorious tower into the heavens, with new kinds of sandwiches that don't even need bread!  Some are open-faced, and some use lettuce on the outside, a crazy insult to the sandwiches of the oldschool!  But since everybody is so fat from all those giant submarine sandwiches, the Island introduces the Atkins Diet, and lettuce sandwiches take over the world.

This story needs to keep going. It's the most entertaining part of the whole thread.

 

yes, I want to see what happens after the lettuce sandwich take over the world

 

btw: how many niche titles sold over a million on ps3/xbox360/pc since not one niche title sold a million on the wii... can't I use the same arguement against the ps3/xbox360/pc, of course thats unless you prove me wrong . (btw, the people in here are saying blockbuster 3 parties don't sell on the wii... what titles may you be talking about?)




              

Carl2291 said:

2 year late ports, yes. But the highest quality games of there genre also.

Unarcadey rail shooters? Call of Duty... "Unarcedey rail shooter"? And you think you deserve these games?

I thought you were referring to the other Resident Evil games, I made a mistake. One that was of little consequence but you capitalized on it for a bit of ad hominem anyway.

Do you think the Wii Call of Duty's (forgetting 3 since it sucked generally, it's not like it sold great on PS3) compare in the sort of effort or even features that were put into the HD versions? One of them is a gimped port, the other is a two year late gimped port. Even if it weren't gimped, the game was designed to be played on the HD consoles and suffers on Wii for it.



A game I'm developing with some friends:

www.xnagg.com/zombieasteroids/publish.htm

It is largely a technical exercise but feedback is appreciated.

Carl2291 said:
Wyrdness said:
Carl2291 said:
Innervate said:
Carl2291 said:
Innervate said:
Carl2291 said:
guiduc said:
BladeOfGod said:
they are just jealous cuz they're not getting Batman AA, RE5, DMC4, Bioshock, MW2 ( maybe in 2014 ), AC 2, Bayonetta and lots of other awesome 3rd party games

Could you stop trolling here?

If you were in that situation, maybe you too you would be angry. We just don't get the games we deserve. We can only count on Nintendo, unfortunately.

That's the thing though. Why do you automatically "deserve" those games? Because of the Wii sales?

The bigger install base having the best 3rd party support has always been the case, why is it suddenly a problem now that Nintendo is back on top? It's a little thing called 'common sense'; a bigger install base means more potential sales.

The bigger install base isn't seen as the Wii, it is seen as the (as the industry puts it)... "HD Twins". Which have a greater market share than Wii, and also share a whole bunch of the same "core" fanbase.

You're making the mistake in not taking into account multiple console ownership. Even ignoring that, like others have stated the Wii could have the same market share as the PS2 and would still have the same support. We have already pointed out the many flaws in your argument, so if you do not wish to revise it I don't see a point in continuing this argument.

Why should i take into account "multiple console ownership"? The fact is, HD has a greater marketshare than Wii. That's why the majority of games releasing on the 2 consoles are shared.

No it wouldn't stay the same, because if it had that marketshare it would have the mix of all fans/gamers... Just like PS2 did. Developers would HAVE to support it.

What flaws?...


You should take it into account because numerous people own both 360/PS3s so in effect your logic is flawed, if the are 30m 360s sold and 20m PS3s it doesn't mean that the are 50m potential customers which is why your attempt to group them together to mask market share is coming off a bit silly.

The fact is there are more PS3's and 360's out there than Wii's. There is a bigger PS360 marketshare than there is Wii marketshare. Fact.


Wrong the fact is market share is done by individual consoles because if the are 60m PS3s and 360s out there and 10m own both consoles it doesn't mean the are 60m customers for the HD twins as you put and thus the market share becomes lower then the Wii hence the flaw in your argument fact.

SuperAdrianK said:
Johann said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
theprof00 said:

famousringo said:
Let me tell youa story of two delis, located across the street from each other. The Wii Deli specializes in club sandwiches, and the HD Deli makes great big deluxe submarine sandwiches.

Threepee, a sandwich maker working at HD Deli, is having a hard time making ends meet. He makes a mean submarine sandwich, but there just aren't always enough people hungry for a submarine sandwich to pay the bills.

Threepee looks across the street, and sees people lined up to get into Wii Deli. Seeing dollar signs, Threepee walks across the street and asks the proprietor if he could use another sandwich maker. The propietor agrees, noting that he's having trouble meeting demand and customers like variety.

So Threepee starts selling sandwiches, only he can't afford to buy all the ingredients that he puts into his submarine sandwiches. That should be okay, because if these people wanted a submarine sandwich, they'd be across the street anyway. He doesn't want to compete with the propietor's club sandwiches, because he thinks people will just turn up their nose and buy from him. So Threepee makes cheese sandwiches: Just a couple pieces of Wonderbread with a slice of processed cheese in the middle.

At first, things go well. Customers are tired of waiting in line for club sandwiches, so they try a cheese sandwich for a little variety. Threepee thinks this is great, and starts making more and more cheese sandwiches.

But the customers aren't enthused. Where's the tomato? The turkey? It's a little unsatisfying. So they go back to waiting in line for club sandwiches.

Threepee's response to this development is anger. He's spent a lot of money on Wonderbread and processed cheese. Rather than trying to make club sandwiches, or coming up with a sandwich that's different, but just as satisfying, Threepee angrily blames the customers of the Wii Deli for not buying his sandwiches. He tells them that he thinks they're ignorant people who don't even like sandwiches and storms out of the deli.

Now tell me, do the customers of the Wii Deli have any reason to find Threepee annoying?

Except that grilled cheese is delicious, and when he throws in some chicken or tuna or tomato, people say "whatever, it's not a wiideli club sandwich". So, he tries making some wiideli sandwiches after thorough testing to suit the townspeople's tastes. So, he makes 3 new sandiwches and a lot of people buy them. He tries making some more new ones and people like them, but he only makes a few cents on every sandwich. But that's ok, he has established a brand and still has his 3 sandwiches. The next month, wiideli starts a new promotion: "Re-introducing the original sandwich". Threepee's sales drop into the toilet. Threepee looks at the situation and says "fine, I'll just sell exactly what they were just selling a month ago". Except nobody buys them.

Frustrated, he starts looking at his options. He then realizes that they live on an island in the pacific, and there are only 10 possible ingredients located there. He remembers that he already tried all the other combinations and summizes that he should try just putting more of each ingredient in each sandwich. So, he goes to his distributor and they tell him, "sorry, nobody is allowed to exceed the allowed amount. Sandwiches cannot exceed a certain weight, and you are already pushing the limits". So, threepee decides to move to the mainland. Even on the boat, the club sandwiches are three times bigger and are made from a selection of 50 ingredients. Completely exhausted, he wonders why he moved to the island in the first place.

Threepee moves back to the mainland and works for the big submarine sandwich empire, takes out a loan to buy 100 new ingredients and introduces his biggest sandwich yet, with many Lairs and Lairs of meats and cheeses, and even adds some expensive rare giant enemy crabmeat.  When he releases his new sandwich, he invites all the food critics to come try it out, and lets them now that there's a stupid island out there full of morons who wouldn't know good sandwiches if they crawled up their ass, died, and blamed Wii Fit.

Threepee's sandwich tastes like shit, costs too much, and makes one of the food critics vomit.  Another critic says "Hey aren't you that cheese sandwich moron who said we don't know what good sandwiches are?"  Sandwich-goers of all creeds abandon him.  Threepee is now homeless.  And as he wanders the street looking for crumbs, he can look off into the Pacific, and see a great island building a glorious tower into the heavens, with new kinds of sandwiches that don't even need bread!  Some are open-faced, and some use lettuce on the outside, a crazy insult to the sandwiches of the oldschool!  But since everybody is so fat from all those giant submarine sandwiches, the Island introduces the Atkins Diet, and lettuce sandwiches take over the world.

This story needs to keep going. It's the most entertaining part of the whole thread.

 

yes, I want to see what happens after the lettuce sandwich take over the world

 

btw: how many niche titles sold over a million on ps3/xbox360/pc since not one niche title sold a million on the wii... can't I use the same arguement against the ps3/xbox360/pc, of course thats unless you prove me wrong . (btw, the people in here are saying blockbuster 3 parties don't sell on the wii... what titles may you be talking about?)

Monster Hunter 3



Bet between Slimbeast and Arius Dion about Wii sales 2009:


If the Wii sells less than 20 million in 2009 (as defined by VGC sales between week ending 3d Jan 2009 to week ending 4th Jan 2010) Slimebeast wins and get to control Arius Dion's sig for 1 month.

If the Wii sells more than 20 million in 2009 (as defined above) Arius Dion wins and gets to control Slimebeast's sig for 1 month.

Carl2291 said:

The fact is there are more PS3's and 360's out there than Wii's. There is a bigger PS360 marketshare than there is Wii marketshare. Fact.

It's 51.3:48.7 ratio, and you're not taking into account the added costs from multiplatform development, HD development etc.



A game I'm developing with some friends:

www.xnagg.com/zombieasteroids/publish.htm

It is largely a technical exercise but feedback is appreciated.