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Forums - PC Discussion - The Gaming PC Building/Upgrade Thread

Garcian Smith said:
WilliamWatts said:

No game will require it for a long time but they will soon drop DX9 support and focus on the DX10+ codepath. Pretty much every feature in DX11 can be emulated by DX10 hardware aside from tessellation. However emulated support for more advanced shaders etc will be slower than native support. So by the end of this year there should be a clear lead for the 5750 against the 4850 and the 5770 against the 4870. In addition to this the other abilities of the GPU are more useful, like for example accelerating encoding or GPGPU type tasks with Shader Model 5.

There's really no evidence at this time to support anything that you said. Again, at the moment there's only three games that support DX11, and the only notable ones coming in the future with announced support are Aliens v. Predator, Battlefield Bad Company 2, Crysis 2, and a couple of MMOs. And those will display just fine on a DX10 card.

As always, buying with "future-proofing" in mind is stupid. Just get a DX11 card in two years when more than a handful of games can utilize it and you'll need to upgrade anyway.

If there was no evidence then I wouldn't have said it.

They will also display fine on Direct X 9 cards but thats besides the point. The major point is that Direct X 11 is both an improvement in image quality and efficiency, so if you take cards with relatively similar specs like 800 ATI stream processors then the Direct X 11 cards will either be faster or offer better image quality for around the same performance. In addition to this they are incredibly power efficent and the difference in cost will be made back on idle power consumption alone.

The number of DX11 games will increase rapidly as we approach the end of the year. For most game announcements and release we have to wait until after E3 before we can see the whole range of games which will be supporting the standard. Its only a few hours work to recompile a game from Direct X 10 to support Direct X 11 so aside from games which are deep in their Q/A stage and are feature complete, we will see almost every DX10 game support Direct X 11 to some extent.

43 Watts less idle use than the 4870, 38 Watts less than the 4890, 19 Watts less than the 4850.

107W less than the 4890, 100W less than the 4870, 61W less than the 4850.

Assuming 4 hours a day use with 1 hour under load the 5770 compared to the 4870 will use (3*43*365) + (1*100*365) = 83.5kw/h. Assuming 10c per KW/H the HD 5770 will use $8.40 less than the HD 4870 per year and $16.80 over the lifetime of two years. The cheapest 4870 on NewEgg is $170 and the cheapest realistic 5770 is $162.



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@WilliamWatts

I do see what you're trying to say.

As I linked earlier, there's no conclusive evidence that games perform better under DX11 mode than under DX9. We'll need more DX11 games to come out to tell.

You are comparing the current price of the 4870 to the 5770, however just before the 5770 released you could find 4870s at $125 most of the time. The 4850, 4890, GTX260, GTX275, GTX285 and GTX295 have all risen in price by a large amount since the 5xx release - 5xxx has made the price of a given level of performance rise.



Well, I'm updating to Snow Leopard and Windows 7 today. Should finally be able to use a 4890 in osx.



Demon's Souls Official Thread  | Currently playing: Left 4 Dead 2, LittleBigPlanet 2, Magicka

Soleron said:
@WilliamWatts

I do see what you're trying to say.

As I linked earlier, there's no conclusive evidence that games perform better under DX11 mode than under DX9. We'll need more DX11 games to come out to tell.

You are comparing the current price of the 4870 to the 5770, however just before the 5770 released you could find 4870s at $125 most of the time. The 4850, 4890, GTX260, GTX275, GTX285 and GTX295 have all risen in price by a large amount since the 5xx release - 5xxx has made the price of a given level of performance rise.

I understand your hesitation in relation to promises made for Direct X 10. So I guess time will tell there, and effectively it looks like the HD 4870 has been discontinued aside from being available for warranty repairs. This makes any comparison to the 5770 moot as the short term savings on the EOL hardware have to come to an end very shortly.



A quick note on your optical Blu-ray drivers. In my experience LG has been far better than Sony ones, and many people agree. In fact I think LG has been making the best ones.

I'm too lazy to read all of it to offer more criticism other than the fact that when it comes to power making a PC as powerful as an HD console is more or less the same price, not "significantly" as you put it. For a PC to be significantly costlier it would be significantly more powerful than either HD console too.

 

Esit: Seagate HDDs have recently started to be the worst possible HDDs with a higher failure rate, also Western Digital's Caviar Green HDDs also have a horrendous failure rate. Stay away from both brands.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

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vlad321 said:

 

 

Esit: Seagate HDDs have recently started to be the worst possible HDDs with a higher failure rate, also Western Digital's Caviar Green HDDs also have a horrendous failure rate. Stay away from both brands.


I had several Seagates die on me recently, the return process was 'send it to Singapore' which is quite frankly, SHIT.



All I've ever used are Seagate drives. Thankfully the newest one I have is from late 2008, and all have been flawless thus far. If I were to buy a new one, I'd definitely reconsider that though.



Demon's Souls Official Thread  | Currently playing: Left 4 Dead 2, LittleBigPlanet 2, Magicka

WilliamWatts said:
vlad321 said:

 

 

Esit: Seagate HDDs have recently started to be the worst possible HDDs with a higher failure rate, also Western Digital's Caviar Green HDDs also have a horrendous failure rate. Stay away from both brands.


I had several Seagates die on me recently, the return process was 'send it to Singapore' which is quite frankly, SHIT.

That is what I have been hearing. Not the earlier models, but the recent ones are utterly horrible. Something about them changing manufacturing or something.

 

As for the Caviar Greens, the problem with them has somethign to do with the fact they are lower power so the "needle" breaks and stuff if you use it as a primary. I'd suggest a Caviar Blue as a primary HDD if you don't care about HDD performance. Or a Samsung.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

Garcian Smith said:
Hephaestos said:
I5-750
Asus Maximus III Formula (integrated sound FX whatever creative labs)
Gskill Kit Extreme 3 4x2go DDR3-16000 Trident series
Antec Nine Hundred Two
Antec TruePower New Blue 750W
2x GTX260 Super OC GV-N26SO-896I
500Go HDD
64Go SSD (SuperTalent)


The NVIDIA choice is because i'm adding the 22" 120Hz viewsonic and the 3D Vision kit.
total €2000 (could have saved at least 150 by buying in store instead of delivery and waiting for parts that were delayed... so really €1850, but it's a gift, didn't pay it myself).

Good/Bad?

1) That's WAY too much RAM. Drop it down to 4 GB and save yourself a hundred bucks.

2) A 750W PSU is unneeded for that build, and Antec is only a middling brand. Even with the dual GTX260s, you can drop down to a nice 550W Corsair or SeaSonic for less money that'll run everything without a hitch, and much more reliably.

3) And speaking of the dual GTX 260s, that 22" ViewSonic only displays in 1680x1050. You only need a single graphics card in there, and a Radeon 4890 would ideally be the best choice. If you really want to use NVidia, just get a single one of those cards - and if you really want to spend $400 on a graphics card, just get a single one.

4) Are you sure that you want to become a 3D early adopter? That's a lot of money for a technology that hasn't really caught on, and more than likely never will (mostly due to Nvidia's insistence on mediocre-to-bad proprietary standards). I mean, it's your money, but I'd strongly caution against it.

 

First, thanks for the comments!

 

1) yes it is too much, I wanted 6Go... but the I5 750 is dual channel, got carried away by the "gift" tag on this comp I guess!

2) I read in many places that for SLI you needed more than 500... guess that was wrong :p (or just for 285 cards?).

Picked Antec cause it's my first self build and had no idea if everything was standard so took PSU with a case of same brand. The PSU is bronze "something" though, I thought that was a standard benchmark for reliability on output? (other brands use it too)

3/4) The viewsonic is only for the 3D yes... there is a 24" Acer comming out, but the price will be higher and in 2 years when I switch appartements (provided 3D is well suported) i'll get a 3D ready projector (there is an ACER one for 500€ currently, so not much more than the price of the 24", and that may be down in 2 years). I'm planning on using dual screen display (but yeah games on one screen, i already have a 24" for the non 3D games).

I read many users (even on this site) saying they loved the 3D vision and that it was bluffing even on older games... The investment is 120€ for the kit and 250 for the screen... so 370. (add 150 for the 24").

Actually regarding Nvidia 3D... apparently they just ran 3D movies from Blu rays, without having to change the 3D vision hardware (or so they say), 3D BR are for 2010 (that sucks i'm antiBR but would have to adopt it for that....) . ATI is also ramping up a 3D standard (but it will be open from what I read).

(my prices are from France btw)



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Hephaestos said:

 

First, thanks for the comments!

 

1) yes it is too much, I wanted 6Go... but the I5 750 is dual channel, got carried away by the "gift" tag on this comp I guess!

2) I read in many places that for SLI you needed more than 500... guess that was wrong :p (or just for 285 cards?).

Picked Antec cause it's my first self build and had no idea if everything was standard so took PSU with a case of same brand. The PSU is bronze "something" though, I thought that was a standard benchmark for reliability on output? (other brands use it too)

3/4) The viewsonic is only for the 3D yes... there is a 24" Acer comming out, but the price will be higher and in 2 years when I switch appartements (provided 3D is well suported) i'll get a 3D ready projector (there is an ACER one for 500€ currently, so not much more than the price of the 24", and that may be down in 2 years). I'm planning on using dual screen display (but yeah games on one screen, i already have a 24" for the non 3D games).

I read many users (even on this site) saying they loved the 3D vision and that it was bluffing even on older games... The investment is 120€ for the kit and 250 for the screen... so 370. (add 150 for the 24").

Actually regarding Nvidia 3D... apparently they just ran 3D movies from Blu rays, without having to change the 3D vision hardware (or so they say), 3D BR are for 2010 (that sucks i'm antiBR but would have to adopt it for that....) . ATI is also ramping up a 3D standard (but it will be open from what I read).

(my prices are from France btw)

The 1156 pin CPUs only support 1* 16 lane PCI-E or 2 8 8 lane at best, but if the motherboard has USB 3.0 expect that to be cut down to 8 + 4 so you're better off with a single fast card with that CPU.

Also have you heard of Fermi?

http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3721

512SP etc etc for the price of two GTX 265s and will be blazingly fast.