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Forums - Gaming Discussion - OnLive: Is it the future of gaming.

Scoobes said:
Soleron said:
theprof00 said:
...

gaming merchandise will always be available. Well, not always.

If this thing comes out this year, then I predict at least 2 more console generations. But in 15-20 years, when every household has a 10MB connection, this cloud processing will be the only thing there is.

In 10 years, you'll be able to fit an high-end PC system of today in a 5W power envelope. A laptop or desktop under $300 would be able to play Crysis-level graphics. Since I believe game graphics will not progress much beyond today (too expensive), all the processing power any household needs will be very cheap, in a very small form factor and everyone will have one. Why would anyone then pay a subscription?

True, but there are other directions that tech and power can go to, like 3D (not sure how this'd effect OnLive). Just saying people and devs will come up with new ideas and innovations with the increase in power. And in answer to your question I'd point out millions are paying for X-box Live just for the privilage to play online multiplayer. If they bring out a small console form version of this which sells for cheap, a subscription based model could work as a lot of console only gamers are put off by PC gaming.

OT: I'm not sure I see this working soon, or OnLive the company being successful, but the tech could well be the future. I wouldn't be suprised if the 3 console manufacturers start experimenting with streaming games at the end of next gen. Devs and publishers would be especially happy because it would get rid of used game sales.

But than they would need to have a violent price cut schemes like steam has today. One of the biggest problem with DD is the of trading and used market. For industry it's great, but for consumers it's terrible, with PC there is loads of DD store(steam is main one,though) and there is competition. For consoles it would be a total monopoly since we have just one DD store per console.

 

If a publisher decides to sell their games for a ridiculous high price we couldn't even wait for getting it used since it isn't an option, we would have to wait for crazy sales like steam does here and there.



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Soleron said:
theprof00 said:
...

gaming merchandise will always be available. Well, not always.

If this thing comes out this year, then I predict at least 2 more console generations. But in 15-20 years, when every household has a 10MB connection, this cloud processing will be the only thing there is.

In 10 years, you'll be able to fit an high-end PC system of today in a 5W power envelope. A laptop or desktop under $300 would be able to play Crysis-level graphics. Since I believe game graphics will not progress much beyond today (too expensive), all the processing power any household needs will be very cheap, in a very small form factor and everyone will have one. Why would anyone then pay a subscription?

I respect your opinion about computers because you seem to know a lot more than I do, and I know a lot more than the average consumer.

However, one thing I am having trouble understanding is the pricing you're mentioning. The market runs at the price it does because of consumer demand. If graphics and performance do not keep increasing, then those parts won't continue to drop in price, it will be expensive and stay expensive unless there is some huge market available.

It's would be like the next generation BluRay. If the market never sees a difference in performance and quality, then they won't switch over, because it will be unnecessary. Companies won't be able to reach scale and costs won't drop. I know you say "everyone will have one", but if that's true, then there will be a plethora of higher tech in smaller and smaller packages.

Your example of running Crysis also doesn't matter very much because the video above shows Crysis at full. It's running already. The graphics will keep increasing and so will processing power, and games will keep coming out to take advantage of higher and higher technology. ie in Rome Total War: Each soldier is representative of 10 or so soldiers. In the future, you will command millions of soldiers onscreen. This is only possible through cloud processing and now that companies are looking at this platform, they will understand that they are now free to have whatever they want in a game, because the market is not restricted by PC specifications.



invetedlotus123 said:
Scoobes said:
Soleron said:
theprof00 said:
...

gaming merchandise will always be available. Well, not always.

If this thing comes out this year, then I predict at least 2 more console generations. But in 15-20 years, when every household has a 10MB connection, this cloud processing will be the only thing there is.

In 10 years, you'll be able to fit an high-end PC system of today in a 5W power envelope. A laptop or desktop under $300 would be able to play Crysis-level graphics. Since I believe game graphics will not progress much beyond today (too expensive), all the processing power any household needs will be very cheap, in a very small form factor and everyone will have one. Why would anyone then pay a subscription?

True, but there are other directions that tech and power can go to, like 3D (not sure how this'd effect OnLive). Just saying people and devs will come up with new ideas and innovations with the increase in power. And in answer to your question I'd point out millions are paying for X-box Live just for the privilage to play online multiplayer. If they bring out a small console form version of this which sells for cheap, a subscription based model could work as a lot of console only gamers are put off by PC gaming.

OT: I'm not sure I see this working soon, or OnLive the company being successful, but the tech could well be the future. I wouldn't be suprised if the 3 console manufacturers start experimenting with streaming games at the end of next gen. Devs and publishers would be especially happy because it would get rid of used game sales.

But than they would need to have a violent price cut schemes like steam has today. One of the biggest problem with DD is the of trading and used market. For industry it's great, but for consumers it's terrible, with PC there is loads of DD store(steam is main one,though) and there is competition. For consoles it would be a total monopoly since we have just one DD store per console.

 

If a publisher decides to sell their games for a ridiculous high price we couldn't even wait for getting it used since it isn't an option, we would have to wait for crazy sales like steam does here and there.

Never said it was a good thing for the consumer, like you said, it's a pretty bad thing. The publishers have some power over how things will play out though, and OnLive (along with DD) sounds like something they'd actually prefer as they wouldn't have to worry about used game sales affecting them.

The only plus side is they have more room to cut the price of games as they don't have to pay the costs of packaging. I'm guessing that's how Steam manages to have so many deals and sales.



Scoobes said:
KungKras said:
RSEagle said:
I'm a very avid supporter of physical media as well, so I'll naturally oppose services like OnLive. However, the future doesn't look good with digital distribution continuing to grow stronger. I'd say in a generation or two, physical media for new release games will be phased out completely.

Not gonna happen. DD doesn't suit video games the way it suits music. People want to be able to hold their games in their hands, to sell crappy games back to the stores, and to collect retro games.

They said exactly the same of the movie and music industries too and they've grown hugely in terms of digital downloads much as DD is growing in the games industries. Steam, PSN, Live, and countless other digital distribution systems have been setup now. It's not like physical media will cease to exist, but as time goes on it will become more niche. For example, I don't know anyone that collects retro games, but I know plenty that will download them on WiiWare, PSN or general ROMs.

DD works on PC because games on computers have always been just ones and zeros. But on consoles, the games are played by the hardware, like how music ic played by an instrument. People want to be able to touch their video games. Had Steam been on consoles, it would have failed.

The music industry companies refused to go DD, but were forced to do so by the consumers. In the video game industry, it's the other way around. The industry wants DD to gain control and to eliminate used game sales. But so far, DD on consoles have failed miserably, look at PSPgo.



I LOVE ICELAND!

KungKras said:

DD works on PC because games on computers have always been just ones and zeros. But on consoles, the games are played by the hardware, like how music ic played by an instrument. People want to be able to touch their video games. Had Steam been on consoles, it would have failed.

The music industry companies refused to go DD, but were forced to do so by the consumers. In the video game industry, it's the other way around. The industry wants DD to gain control and to eliminate used game sales. But so far, DD on consoles have failed miserably, look at PSPgo.

joke post?

I ask because pspgo isn't the archetypal DD console. Ipod Touch/Phone is, and it's eating up the market very quickly.



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theprof00 said:
KungKras said:

DD works on PC because games on computers have always been just ones and zeros. But on consoles, the games are played by the hardware, like how music ic played by an instrument. People want to be able to touch their video games. Had Steam been on consoles, it would have failed.

The music industry companies refused to go DD, but were forced to do so by the consumers. In the video game industry, it's the other way around. The industry wants DD to gain control and to eliminate used game sales. But so far, DD on consoles have failed miserably, look at PSPgo.

joke post?

I ask because pspgo isn't the archetypal DD console. Ipod Touch/Phone is, and it's eating up the market very quickly.

This is very true. The digital download market is constantly growing. On consoles, PSN (PS3 and PSP), 360 and even WiiWare to a certain extent all have digital download models. If they weren't making money for the big 3 they wouldn't bother. Sony have even had a few PS3 games to download like GT Prologue and Siren: Blood Curse. Digital download will have a big impact in the near future whether you want it to or not.

Also, KungKras, your comparison of musical instruments to consoles makes no sense whatsoever. You say people want to be able to touch their video games (this sounds dodgy btw ), and some do. But I don't see how it's any different to the few who want to touch there physical media in the music or film industry. It's a niche group. Most people just want to be able to play the games.



PDF said:
I do not understand why people are against this.

The idea that graphics are suddenly going to stop getting better is stupid. There is a lot of room to improvement. RTS games for one can get a lot more detailed and put a lot more units on screen. Engine can also improve.

As long as it is priced fairly this is great idea. It is the future. Not the near future but the future non the less and i will jump on as soon as I think its a viable option for my gaming needs.

I think it's viable almost immediately. I have no reason to buy a 360, and I'm not going to spend 200$ for a wii or buy new controllers, yet both systems have exclusives that I would like to play. Problem solved.



PDF said:
theprof00 said:

I think it's viable almost immediately. I have no reason to buy a 360, and I'm not going to spend 200$ for a wii or buy new controllers, yet both systems have exclusives that I would like to play. Problem solved.

 

I am not a tech junkie so I dont know how ready it really is for the mass market on the tech side.  I am just going to trust the guy from the videos.

 

However I understand economics and Market a lot better.  Even if the tech is there the market is not ready(yet).   Ninty and MS are not going to allow their exclusives to be played Onlive.

I think by the next gen of consoles, it could be a viable answer if it offers enough games.(if the other 3 don't invest in this tech)  I strongly think that all three major companies should look into this tech.

sure you might not be able to play mario or halo, but you'll be able to play fragile, boy and his blob, left 4 dead, mass effect, dead space extraction etc etc

all third parties are on board except activision



So would third party developers, including Activision, go exclusively to OnLive? If so, how long would it take for first party developers like Bungie and Polyphony to follow suit? I mean, if such a situation were to occur, we'd be looking at the end of consoles, right? XBox, Playstation, and perhaps even Nintendo would fall prey to OnLive.



pterodactyl said:

So would third party developers, including Activision, go exclusively to OnLive? If so, how long would it take for first party developers like Bungie and Polyphony to follow suit? I mean, if such a situation were to occur, we'd be looking at the end of consoles, right? XBox, Playstation, and perhaps even Nintendo would fall prey to OnLive.

Unless they can figure out how to make the consoles a necessary purchase.

For MS, this may be a difficult time because they don't yet have any real specific reason to be in the home. For Nintendo, it's also a disadvantage because Nintendo makes a huge portion of their profit from hardware margin. For Sony, it's slightly advantageous because they have the BluRay/DD/connectivitywithpsp/media center aspect. However, this is a disadvantage as well because Sony tends to lose money on hardware.