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Forums - Gaming - Mistwalker’s New Game To Be Announced Around Springtime.

loves2splooge said:
Blood_Tears said:
With so many rpg's coming to PS3 and FFXIII putting up big numbers, I hope they go PS3/360.

This is precisely why staying 360-exclusive would make the most sense strategically for Mistwalker. On the 360, Lost Odyssey 2 would be huge (1 million+ easy) because there is no real competiton on the 360 in the exclusive jrpg department any more. Ninety-Nine Nights is the only upcoming 360 exclusive jrpg I can think of. The rest are multi-plats and even those are drying up. Every jrpg fan who owns a 360 is going to buy Lost Odyssey 2 unless they didn't like the first one. On the PS3, Mistwalker would be forced to release a new IP (since MS owns Lost Odyssey and Blue Dragon) and they'd have to compete with the sharks in PS3's red ocean waters (Versus XIII and others). On the 360, it'll be like a Blue Ocean for Mistwalker. Yeah there are still people buying the old 360 jrpgs but since those games are old, they aren't going to cut into Mistwalker's market share much. Lost Odyssey could be to Final Fantasy what Forza is to GT or Killzone is to Halo. Mistwalker already ventured into jrpg-heavy territory (DS) and their DS games saw really low sales. That's what happens when you compete on a platform where everyone and their grandmother is releasing a jrpg.

It's similar to what people have been saying about Dante's Inferno. It's going to be overshadowed by God of War no doubt. If it was 360 exclusive instead, it would have it's own seperate identity instead of being seen as the opening act for God of War 3.

Folks, this poster gets it.  Couldn't have said it any better myself. 



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loves2splooge said:
Blood_Tears said:
With so many rpg's coming to PS3 and FFXIII putting up big numbers, I hope they go PS3/360.

This is precisely why staying 360-exclusive would make the most sense strategically for Mistwalker. On the 360, Lost Odyssey 2 would be huge (1 million+ easy) because there is no real competiton on the 360 in the exclusive jrpg department any more. Ninety-Nine Nights is the only upcoming 360 exclusive jrpg I can think of. The rest are multi-plats and even those are drying up. Every jrpg fan who owns a 360 is going to buy Lost Odyssey 2 unless they didn't like the first one. On the PS3, Mistwalker would be forced to release a new IP (since MS owns Lost Odyssey and Blue Dragon) and they'd have to compete with the sharks in PS3's red ocean waters (Versus XIII and others). On the 360, it'll be like a Blue Ocean for Mistwalker. Yeah there are still people buying the old 360 jrpgs but since those games are old, they aren't going to cut into Mistwalker's market share much. Lost Odyssey could be to Final Fantasy what Forza is to GT or Killzone is to Halo. Mistwalker already ventured into jrpg-heavy territory (DS) and their DS games saw really low sales. That's what happens when you compete on a platform where everyone and their grandmother is releasing a jrpg.

It's similar to what people have been saying about Dante's Inferno. It's going to be overshadowed by God of War no doubt. If it was 360 exclusive instead, it would have it's own seperate identity instead of being seen as the opening act for God of War 3.

I must say, very good post. Kudos.



loves2splooge said:
Blood_Tears said:
With so many rpg's coming to PS3 and FFXIII putting up big numbers, I hope they go PS3/360.

This is precisely why staying 360-exclusive would make the most sense strategically for Mistwalker. On the 360, Lost Odyssey 2 would be huge (1 million+ easy) because there is no real competiton on the 360 in the exclusive jrpg department any more. Ninety-Nine Nights is the only upcoming 360 exclusive jrpg I can think of. The rest are multi-plats and even those are drying up. Every jrpg fan who owns a 360 is going to buy Lost Odyssey 2 unless they didn't like the first one. On the PS3, Mistwalker would be forced to release a new IP (since MS owns Lost Odyssey and Blue Dragon) and they'd have to compete with the sharks in PS3's red ocean waters (Versus XIII and others). On the 360, it'll be like a Blue Ocean for Mistwalker. Yeah there are still people buying the old 360 jrpgs but since those games are old, they aren't going to cut into Mistwalker's market share much. Lost Odyssey could be to Final Fantasy what Forza is to GT or Killzone is to Halo. Mistwalker already ventured into jrpg-heavy territory (DS) and their DS games saw really low sales. That's what happens when you compete on a platform where everyone and their grandmother is releasing a jrpg.

It's similar to what people have been saying about Dante's Inferno. It's going to be overshadowed by God of War no doubt. If it was 360 exclusive instead, it would have it's own seperate identity instead of being seen as the opening act for God of War 3.

There is a difference however. The 360 user base in Japan is tiny when compared to anything else, and that is a massive loss in sales. The 360 owners are going to get excited about it anyway, and while you say it is less competition, the PS3 isn't exactly flooded by jRPGs. What big ones are coming exclusively to PS3? I can only think of White Knight Chronicles 2 and Final Fantasy Versus XIII.

It does depend on how long all these games are, because there is plenty of room for it to fit in, and certainly in Japan, it will more than double the sales. The only true RPG, WKC sold more than triple LO in Japan, selling around 400k and with Sakaguchi's name, LO 2 would be able to sell more than that on PS3.

You could leave it as a 360 exclusive outside Japan if you really want, but the name is enough that it will sell the same on 360. It is such a good game that everyone who bought number 1 will buy number 2, so releasing on PS3 won't damage its market share much



loves2splooge said:
Blood_Tears said:
With so many rpg's coming to PS3 and FFXIII putting up big numbers, I hope they go PS3/360.

This is precisely why staying 360-exclusive would make the most sense strategically for Mistwalker. On the 360, Lost Odyssey 2 would be huge (1 million+ easy) because there is no real competiton on the 360 in the exclusive jrpg department any more. Ninety-Nine Nights is the only upcoming 360 exclusive jrpg I can think of. The rest are multi-plats and even those are drying up. Every jrpg fan who owns a 360 is going to buy Lost Odyssey 2 unless they didn't like the first one. On the PS3, Mistwalker would be forced to release a new IP (since MS owns Lost Odyssey and Blue Dragon) and they'd have to compete with the sharks in PS3's red ocean waters (Versus XIII and others). On the 360, it'll be like a Blue Ocean for Mistwalker. Yeah there are still people buying the old 360 jrpgs but since those games are old, they aren't going to cut into Mistwalker's market share much. Lost Odyssey could be to Final Fantasy what Forza is to GT or Killzone is to Halo. Mistwalker already ventured into jrpg-heavy territory (DS) and their DS games saw really low sales. That's what happens when you compete on a platform where everyone and their grandmother is releasing a jrpg.

It's similar to what people have been saying about Dante's Inferno. It's going to be overshadowed by God of War no doubt. If it was 360 exclusive instead, it would have it's own seperate identity instead of being seen as the opening act for God of War 3.

Yet Killzone 2 failed to sell as much as a game of its caliber deserves, and likely would've sold better had it been multiplat and still recieved a similar marketing campaign.  The opening week may not have been as high, but its legs would've been much better.

Why?  Because the 360 is where all the big shooters are (Halo, Gears, Call of Duty), and thus where all the big shooter fans are, so shooters sell much better on the system.  The same could be said about the ps3 and JRPGs at the moment, especially in Japan now that Final Fantasy is here.  The ps3 has the larger JRPG fanbase, as shown through legs of Valkyria Chronicles (it'll soon take Lost Odyssey's place as the best selling console JRPG this generation after Final Fantasy) and the monster opening week of Final Fantasy XIII.  Or look at the sales of the two versions of Tales of Vesperia, one of which was an incredibly late port released in only one territory.

How many of those 110k people in Japan that bought Lost Odyssey do you think still own 360s and are willing to buy a Lost Odyssey 2, given the system's situation in Japan?  Just look at the number of angry Japanese gamers after Tales went multiplat.  Then Star Ocean went, and now Final Fantasy is out.  Would the franchise be able to sustain that level of sales on 360 under such conditions?

Also, how could Lost Odyssey 2 break a mllion "easy"?  Yeah, it's an exclusive, and yeah it'd be the only decent exclusive JRPG on the horizon, but the same could've been said about the first at the end of 2007 and early 2008.  We did not know the platforms for Tales or Star Ocean at that time, so Lost Odyssey was *the* 360 JRPG, and the game was arguably the first really good JRPG on the system, yet it failed to break a million.  It currently sits at 820k with near non-existent weekly sales.

The sequel could perform better than the first, theoretically, but it would require substantial changes to the franchise for that to happen.  It's pretty well known that sequels usually do not perform as well as their predecessors on the same platform, and this has been shown through franchises like Devil May Cry (DMC1 > DMC3), Gran Turismo (GT1 > GT2, GT3 > GT4), Metal Gear Solid (MGS2 > MGS3, despite MGS3 being the better game), and Final Fantasy ( FFVII > FFVIII > FFIX, FFX > FFXII).  The only exceptions to this I can think of are Halo 2 and Uncharted 2, but both games bore significant improvements over their predecessors.  Both games added online multiplayer to the series for the first time, and the latter title also sported a much improved singleplayer campaign.  These are incredibly rare exceptions to the general rule.

Expecting Lost Odyssey 2 to outsell the first by 20% "easily" is asking quite a lot of the title.



badgenome said:
themanwithnoname said:
So does Microsoft own Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey?

Yes.

I can understand Lost Odyssey being owned by Microsoft, but I remember he said that there was a chance that Blue Dragon could come onto other consoles (blue dragon 2) unless he was only referring to the DS. 



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nofingershaha said:
badgenome said:
themanwithnoname said:
So does Microsoft own Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey?

Yes.

I can understand Lost Odyssey being owned by Microsoft, but I remember he said that there was a chance that Blue Dragon could come onto other consoles (blue dragon 2) unless he was only referring to the DS. 

Microsoft does also own Blue Dragon.  Microsoft has allowed its IPs to be released on the DS in the past because it helps make their IPs known to a wider audience, potentially convincing some of these people to buy a 360 for these IPs.  This is especially benefitial in Japan, given the DS's success in the region, and that is why they brought the Blue Dragon franchise to the system.



makingmusic476 said:
loves2splooge said:
Blood_Tears said:
With so many rpg's coming to PS3 and FFXIII putting up big numbers, I hope they go PS3/360.

This is precisely why staying 360-exclusive would make the most sense strategically for Mistwalker. On the 360, Lost Odyssey 2 would be huge (1 million+ easy) because there is no real competiton on the 360 in the exclusive jrpg department any more. Ninety-Nine Nights is the only upcoming 360 exclusive jrpg I can think of. The rest are multi-plats and even those are drying up. Every jrpg fan who owns a 360 is going to buy Lost Odyssey 2 unless they didn't like the first one. On the PS3, Mistwalker would be forced to release a new IP (since MS owns Lost Odyssey and Blue Dragon) and they'd have to compete with the sharks in PS3's red ocean waters (Versus XIII and others). On the 360, it'll be like a Blue Ocean for Mistwalker. Yeah there are still people buying the old 360 jrpgs but since those games are old, they aren't going to cut into Mistwalker's market share much. Lost Odyssey could be to Final Fantasy what Forza is to GT or Killzone is to Halo. Mistwalker already ventured into jrpg-heavy territory (DS) and their DS games saw really low sales. That's what happens when you compete on a platform where everyone and their grandmother is releasing a jrpg.

It's similar to what people have been saying about Dante's Inferno. It's going to be overshadowed by God of War no doubt. If it was 360 exclusive instead, it would have it's own seperate identity instead of being seen as the opening act for God of War 3.

Yet Killzone 2 failed to sell as much as a game of its caliber deserves, and likely would've sold better had it been multiplat and still recieved a similar marketing campaign.  The opening week may not have been as high, but its legs would've been much better.

Why?  Because the 360 is where all the big shooters are (Halo, Gears, Call of Duty), and thus where all the big shooter fans are, so shooters sell much better on the system.  The same could be said about the ps3 and JRPGs at the moment, especially in Japan now that Final Fantasy is here.  The ps3 has the larger JRPG fanbase, as shown through legs of Valkyria Chronicles (it'll soon take Lost Odyssey's place as the best selling console JRPG this generation after Final Fantasy) and the monster opening week of Final Fantasy XIII.  Or look at the sales of the two versions of Tales of Vesperia, one of which was an incredibly late port released in only one territory.

How many of those 110k people in Japan that bought Lost Odyssey do you think still own 360s and are willing to buy a Lost Odyssey 2, given the system's situation in Japan?  Just look at the number of angry Japanese gamers after Tales went multiplat.  Then Star Ocean went, and now Final Fantasy is out.  Would the franchise be able to sustain that level of sales on 360 under such conditions?

Also, how could Lost Odyssey 2 break a mllion "easy"?  Yeah, it's an exclusive, and yeah it'd be the only decent exclusive JRPG on the horizon, but the same could've been said about the first at the end of 2007 and early 2008.  We did not know the platforms for Tales or Star Ocean at that time, so Lost Odyssey was *the* 360 JRPG, and the game was arguably the first really good JRPG on the system, yet it failed to break a million.  It currently sits at 820k with near non-existent weekly sales.

The sequel could perform better than the first, theoretically, but it would require substantial changes to the franchise for that to happen.  It's pretty well known that sequels usually do not perform as well as their predecessors on the same platform, and this has been shown through franchises like Devil May Cry (DMC1 > DMC3), Gran Turismo (GT1 > GT2, GT3 > GT4), Metal Gear Solid (MGS2 > MGS3, despite MGS3 being the better game), and Final Fantasy ( FFVII > FFVIII > FFIX, FFX > FFXII).  The only exceptions to this I can think of are Halo 2 and Uncharted 2, but both games bore significant improvements over their predecessors.  Both games added online multiplayer to the series for the first time, and the latter title also sported a much improved singleplayer campaign.  These are incredibly rare exceptions to the general rule.

Expecting Lost Odyssey 2 to outsell the first by 20% "easily" is asking quite a lot of the title.

They're some things you pointed out that makes sense, however remember that Lost odyssey was released back in December of 2007 in Japan, and since then the Japanese 360 install base has gotten a bit bigger (though not much). While many Japanese probably don't play their 360s and is dusting in some corner since Star Ocean (or Dream C Club for some), 360 RPG exclusives are generally welcomed enough. It might be too late too sell consoles with the thought of exclusivity, but 360's worldwide install base has gotten much larger also, and Lost Odyssey was generally aimed at the rest of the world instead of just Japan. 



nofingershaha said:
makingmusic476 said:
loves2splooge said:
Blood_Tears said:
With so many rpg's coming to PS3 and FFXIII putting up big numbers, I hope they go PS3/360.

This is precisely why staying 360-exclusive would make the most sense strategically for Mistwalker. On the 360, Lost Odyssey 2 would be huge (1 million+ easy) because there is no real competiton on the 360 in the exclusive jrpg department any more. Ninety-Nine Nights is the only upcoming 360 exclusive jrpg I can think of. The rest are multi-plats and even those are drying up. Every jrpg fan who owns a 360 is going to buy Lost Odyssey 2 unless they didn't like the first one. On the PS3, Mistwalker would be forced to release a new IP (since MS owns Lost Odyssey and Blue Dragon) and they'd have to compete with the sharks in PS3's red ocean waters (Versus XIII and others). On the 360, it'll be like a Blue Ocean for Mistwalker. Yeah there are still people buying the old 360 jrpgs but since those games are old, they aren't going to cut into Mistwalker's market share much. Lost Odyssey could be to Final Fantasy what Forza is to GT or Killzone is to Halo. Mistwalker already ventured into jrpg-heavy territory (DS) and their DS games saw really low sales. That's what happens when you compete on a platform where everyone and their grandmother is releasing a jrpg.

It's similar to what people have been saying about Dante's Inferno. It's going to be overshadowed by God of War no doubt. If it was 360 exclusive instead, it would have it's own seperate identity instead of being seen as the opening act for God of War 3.

Yet Killzone 2 failed to sell as much as a game of its caliber deserves, and likely would've sold better had it been multiplat and still recieved a similar marketing campaign.  The opening week may not have been as high, but its legs would've been much better.

Why?  Because the 360 is where all the big shooters are (Halo, Gears, Call of Duty), and thus where all the big shooter fans are, so shooters sell much better on the system.  The same could be said about the ps3 and JRPGs at the moment, especially in Japan now that Final Fantasy is here.  The ps3 has the larger JRPG fanbase, as shown through legs of Valkyria Chronicles (it'll soon take Lost Odyssey's place as the best selling console JRPG this generation after Final Fantasy) and the monster opening week of Final Fantasy XIII.  Or look at the sales of the two versions of Tales of Vesperia, one of which was an incredibly late port released in only one territory.

How many of those 110k people in Japan that bought Lost Odyssey do you think still own 360s and are willing to buy a Lost Odyssey 2, given the system's situation in Japan?  Just look at the number of angry Japanese gamers after Tales went multiplat.  Then Star Ocean went, and now Final Fantasy is out.  Would the franchise be able to sustain that level of sales on 360 under such conditions?

Also, how could Lost Odyssey 2 break a mllion "easy"?  Yeah, it's an exclusive, and yeah it'd be the only decent exclusive JRPG on the horizon, but the same could've been said about the first at the end of 2007 and early 2008.  We did not know the platforms for Tales or Star Ocean at that time, so Lost Odyssey was *the* 360 JRPG, and the game was arguably the first really good JRPG on the system, yet it failed to break a million.  It currently sits at 820k with near non-existent weekly sales.

The sequel could perform better than the first, theoretically, but it would require substantial changes to the franchise for that to happen.  It's pretty well known that sequels usually do not perform as well as their predecessors on the same platform, and this has been shown through franchises like Devil May Cry (DMC1 > DMC3), Gran Turismo (GT1 > GT2, GT3 > GT4), Metal Gear Solid (MGS2 > MGS3, despite MGS3 being the better game), and Final Fantasy ( FFVII > FFVIII > FFIX, FFX > FFXII).  The only exceptions to this I can think of are Halo 2 and Uncharted 2, but both games bore significant improvements over their predecessors.  Both games added online multiplayer to the series for the first time, and the latter title also sported a much improved singleplayer campaign.  These are incredibly rare exceptions to the general rule.

Expecting Lost Odyssey 2 to outsell the first by 20% "easily" is asking quite a lot of the title.

They're some things you pointed out that makes sense, however remember that Lost odyssey was released back in December of 2007 in Japan, and since then the Japanese 360 install base has gotten a bit bigger (though not much). While many Japanese probably don't play their 360s and is dusting in some corner since Star Ocean (or Dream C Club for some), 360 RPG exclusives are generally welcomed enough. It might be too late too sell consoles with the thought of exclusivity, but 360's worldwide install base has gotten much larger also, and Lost Odyssey was generally aimed at the rest of the world instead of just Japan. 

The ps2's install base was substantially larger in 2004-2006 when GT4, MGS3, and FFXII than it was in 2001 when MGS2, GT3, and FFX were released, but the latter titles sold better overall.

Any new 360 owners today could buy Lost Odyssey if they wished, much like new ps2 owners were still buying MGS2 in 2003/4, or new ps3 owners are still buying Valkyria Chronicles and Uncharted.  A larger install base helps the old as well as the new. 



Lost Odyssey is a successful IP (820k sales worldwide) and it is owned by Microsoft. You can count the number of PS2 jrpg IPs that had the same or better selling games on one hand: Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, Dragon Quest, Star Ocean (on the 360, it got starched by LO in the west. So did Tales) and Dark Cloud. And this gen you might be able to add Valkyria Chronicles to that list since the word of mouth is so amazing but that's about it. That is an exclusive list. Not many jrpg IPs hit it as big as Lost Odyssey did, especially new IPs. A Mistwalker new IP on Ps360 or Wii would have big shoes to fill and they'd have to find a big third-party publisher that would give it top priority. Square-Enix, Bandai Namco, SONY and Sega would all treat Mistwalker like a second-class developer (less marketing, less budget) because they wouldn't want Mistwalker to overshadow their marquee titles. Especially Square-Enix since there's some history there with Sakaguchi. Microsoft on the other hand knows that LO is their golden jrpg goose. They will advertise it. They just have to learn how to market their games properly in Japan because I don't feel that their games (both Japanese and western) are living up to their full potential. They did a good job with Lost Odyssey in the west (700k+) though. And there's no chance in hell that Mistwalker would sell well on the ultra-crowded DS, where Mistwalker performed poorly. The PSP is a pretty crowded market too.

Lost Odyssey 2 is a guaranteed easy 1 million+ worldwide because A) the install base is much larger in Japan now and the 360 has the highest software to hardware attach rate. So the 360 gamers there are still buying the games and they will buy Lost Odyssey 2, a guaranteed exclusive unlike SO4 and ToV. It also got good reviews from Famitsu (36/40). Blue Dragon 2 would be even bigger in Japan than LO2 but LO2 is much more successful in the west so it makes more economical sense to go with LO2.) and B) the jrpg fans in the west are going to support it even more (700k+ for LO1, that number will grow higher now that the 360 install base is even bigger yet and LO2 won't have much competition).

As for the Valkyria example, on the PS3, I doubt a Valkyria Chronicles sequel (VC3 or whatever they might put on PS3) does as well as the first because Valkyria Chronicles benefitted from a Blue Ocean. If you want to play a jrpg in the west NOW on your PS3, what do you buy? Valkyria Chronicles (or Demon's Souls these days if you are feeling lucky). You still gotta wait for FF13, WKC, Resonance of Fate, SO4 International, etc. Valkyria Chronicles benefitted from the Blue Ocean. The PS3 was starved for jrpgs but in 2010 it has a glut of jrpgs.

Right now I'd say releasing Lost Odyssey 2 (which has to be exclusive to 360 because MS owns it) and getting that guaranteed 1 million+ is a much safer bet than a new IP. Mistwalker wasted waaaayy too much time on the DS. If you look at the sales of their DS games, it's sad. That's what happens in such a competitive blood thirsty Red Ocean market. With all the jrpgs on the DS, it's annoying because you think, "oh that jrpg looks cool and that jrpg looks cool" on a weekly basis it seems like but at the end of the day, I don't only want to play jrpgs so that means that I won't be playing the vast majority of jrpgs out on the platform as I want to make time for the other games. All these jrpgs get lost in the shuffle on the DS. And Mistwalker is one of the many victims of that reality. Even if the PS3 doesn't hit the saturation point, a guaranteedl 1 million+ seller wth LO2 is hard for Mistwalker to pass up.



I still want Cry-On. :(

Maybe Marvelous or Namco or someone rescued it?