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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Why is FF7's shocking moment considered the most shocking *spoilers*

arbitor365 said:
perpride said:
arbitor365 said:
Fab_GS said:
arbitor365 said:
perpride said:
arbitor365 said:
perpride said:
Wow I can see this thread turned into an anti-FFVII thread, like usual.

yeah, I know........... I think Im starting to like this site XD

It doesn't matter what the topic at hand is either. If you are talking about anything that has to do with FFVII, there's always a million people that will pour into the thread just to let you know how garbage FFVII was. I'm glad VGC's top 100 games of all time clarified the true king of Final Fantasy.

Yeah, that list was bullshit and we all know it.  In the description they basically said "millions of people bought it and it was the most popular. Therefore it’s the best." they knew they couldnt put something like "it had the most innovative gameplay" or "it had the best storyline" or "it had the best gameplay for its genre" because none of that would have had any truth to it whatsoever. its absurd. any list that has FFVII at the top has no credibility at all.  (and neither does a list that puts "mario galaxy" above "mario 64."). I mean, there are dozens of RPGs that deserve that spot more, much less games from other categories. Are they seriously going to say that FFVII was the second most innovative and influential game OF ALL TIME???? More innovative than pong? More innovative than sinistar? More innovative than doom?? More innovative than Zelda 1??? More innovative than any NES game? It’s a joke.  FFVII is not the second best game ever made. It doesn’t even deserve to be in the top 50 let alone the top ten (I wouldn’t even put it in the top 100).  It did not revolutionize the genre just because it had 3D graphics. 3D RPGs were coming and they didn’t need FFVII in order to do so. It is just plain ignorance to think that we wouldn’t have 3D RPGs today if it weren’t for FFVII. Give me a fucking break.  I hope we get more FFVII hate threads, because that shit needs to get knocked down to size.


WOW You hate FFVII just because most people thinks it's better than Legend of Dragoon. There is something you need to accept here, people has DIFFERENT opinions.

You do know that the list wasn't about innovation nor influence. It is purely based on votes by VGC community, hence why FFVII, SMG and MGS4 being on the Top 10. Besides, you can't deny the impact FFVII made and how influential it was/is. It's definitely one of important games of all-time.

I will not deny that it made an impact, but I find that the impact was incredibly negative for the gaming industry and the RPG genre.  It was an early example of how oversaturation kills smaller franchises and hurts the diversity of a genre.  It inadvertently set up an arrogant mentality in an impressionable generation of young gamers and basically shoved countless titles (many of which that were superior) off the map.  It further cemented square into the industry and turned it into a behemoth.  FF was a pop craze in the video game community, nothing more, nothing less. and like pop crazes in music, it overshadowed countless masterpieces and was hideously overrated. It doesn’t deserve to be on any list. It needs to be forgotten. And thank god the craze is starting to fade. People are finally moving on and people aren’t afraid anymore to say that FFVII is overrated.  Of course people still like to limit themselves and refuse to keep their nostalgia under control.  Well im not afraid to admit right now that I HATE FFVII. I have good reason to and im proud of it.

Wow...dude...you ever heard of having an opinnion? It seems as if the VGC community believes that FFVII was a better game than all the junk you just try to say was better than it. Get over it. It's the most popular game in the franchise (hopefully XIII changes that). and for all the right reasons.

well, here is a list of RPGs that I have beaten that have had better storylines, characters, replay value, gameplay innovation, environment diversity or a combination what I just listed, than FFVII.

 

seiken densetsu games
Chrono trigger
 FFIV, FFVI, FFIX or FFX
Legend of dragoon
chrono cross
star ocean
any shin megami tensei game
earthbound
startropics
xenogears
xenosaga games
skies of arkadia
ark the lad
vagrant story
rogue galaxy
fire emblem
golden sun

so, if there is a FFVII fan who has played all these games that can come forward and refute what I just said and still claim FFVII to be the best, bring it on. And I’ll listen, but I guarantee that you are wrong. There are better games out there that deserve theat #2 spot more than FFVII does.  as for opinions, If someone has only played only 5 or 6 RPGs (one of which being FFVII), how would they know which is the best of the genre much less the best game of all time? those kinds of people make up a huge majority of FFVII's fanbase, especially the more zealous ones. That is why its popularity gives it no merit. If you havent played more than 10 RPGs, than you dont have the viable knowledge or the right to say which is the best of all time. it may be an opinion, but its an ignorant, baseless one.  FFVII’s popularity means nothing.  And you may be wondering “ok mr smartypants, why was it so popular then and still popular today if it really wasn’t that great?” I have a one word answer to that question and it is the single force behind all of the pretentiousness, nostalgia, popularity, hype and success of FFVII…… “graphics.” That’s all. Everything leads back to it. Ponder it for a moment.

Gameplay – wasn’t really much different from 6 (though it was more chaotic and choppy).  Why did it seem revolutionary? Because it was using 3d polygon models instead of sprites. So, its simply graphics, nothing more.

Environments -- though midgar was cool, there wasnt a huge diversity of locations throughout the game. for example, FFVI brought you to way more interesting locations than FFVII ever did. so why do people praise the style of FFVII? im sure you saw this coming....... graphics

Storyline/characters – from a movie/literature critic standpoint, there really isn’t much depth to the characters of FFVII. Most are either pointless, annoying, melodramatic or shallow.  There nothing really dynamic or original about these characters (besides their big swords). So why do fans swear their allegiance to them. Because they were “wow’ed” by the clearer, more realistic appearances of them.  Once again, it all falls back on graphics.  If they all looked like sprites, they wouldn’t have all these fanboys today. You cant deny it.

Hype – it was the first 3D FF game, as the whole world today knows. So obviously, that gave it a lot of hype. In fact, that was the cause of all of its hype.  Graphics once again account for it.

Nostalgia – thanks to this hype, millions of kids played it. thanks to that and the graphics, it was instilled in their tiny brains as “amazing” and “the best.” Nothing could possibly overwrite something so nostalgic.  Millions of kids had this branded into their psyche. And why was that? Why was it so widespread and popular? Why did so many kids inevitably play it? The graphics.

 

In a nutshell, graphics begot hype, hype begot sales, sales begot a wide child demographic, the wide child demographic begot unprecedented nostalgia, and unprecedented nostalgia begot fanboys, universal acclaim and a popularity that overshadows everything else in the genre. All of this, because of one word…… “graphics.”

 

So is it any surprise, why huge RPG fans (or you could say experts) like myself, hate this game And why we look down upon people who put it on a pedestal?? Am I not alone here??

There isn't a single person who has played EVERY GAME that has ever been made, however, everybody can rightfully pick a game that they believe is the greatest game of all time. In other words, I don't need to play every game to have a favorite game. The only games I haven't played from that List are Rogue Galaxy and Startropics. FFVII absolutley destroys every other game that you listed, so I'm going to assume those two are no exception. People are going to have different opinnions than you my friend, and you need to learn to live with that. Graphics have absolutley nothing to do with the popularity of FFVII, because every Final Fantasy looks exceptionally good for its time. For gods sake, half the games you listed aren't even good games, nevermind on the same platform as the greatest game of all time.



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arbitor365 said:
perpride said:
arbitor365 said:
Fab_GS said:
arbitor365 said:
perpride said:
arbitor365 said:
perpride said:
Wow I can see this thread turned into an anti-FFVII thread, like usual.

yeah, I know........... I think Im starting to like this site XD

It doesn't matter what the topic at hand is either. If you are talking about anything that has to do with FFVII, there's always a million people that will pour into the thread just to let you know how garbage FFVII was. I'm glad VGC's top 100 games of all time clarified the true king of Final Fantasy.

Yeah, that list was bullshit and we all know it.  In the description they basically said "millions of people bought it and it was the most popular. Therefore it’s the best." they knew they couldnt put something like "it had the most innovative gameplay" or "it had the best storyline" or "it had the best gameplay for its genre" because none of that would have had any truth to it whatsoever. its absurd. any list that has FFVII at the top has no credibility at all.  (and neither does a list that puts "mario galaxy" above "mario 64."). I mean, there are dozens of RPGs that deserve that spot more, much less games from other categories. Are they seriously going to say that FFVII was the second most innovative and influential game OF ALL TIME???? More innovative than pong? More innovative than sinistar? More innovative than doom?? More innovative than Zelda 1??? More innovative than any NES game? It’s a joke.  FFVII is not the second best game ever made. It doesn’t even deserve to be in the top 50 let alone the top ten (I wouldn’t even put it in the top 100).  It did not revolutionize the genre just because it had 3D graphics. 3D RPGs were coming and they didn’t need FFVII in order to do so. It is just plain ignorance to think that we wouldn’t have 3D RPGs today if it weren’t for FFVII. Give me a fucking break.  I hope we get more FFVII hate threads, because that shit needs to get knocked down to size.


WOW You hate FFVII just because most people thinks it's better than Legend of Dragoon. There is something you need to accept here, people has DIFFERENT opinions.

You do know that the list wasn't about innovation nor influence. It is purely based on votes by VGC community, hence why FFVII, SMG and MGS4 being on the Top 10. Besides, you can't deny the impact FFVII made and how influential it was/is. It's definitely one of important games of all-time.

I will not deny that it made an impact, but I find that the impact was incredibly negative for the gaming industry and the RPG genre.  It was an early example of how oversaturation kills smaller franchises and hurts the diversity of a genre.  It inadvertently set up an arrogant mentality in an impressionable generation of young gamers and basically shoved countless titles (many of which that were superior) off the map.  It further cemented square into the industry and turned it into a behemoth.  FF was a pop craze in the video game community, nothing more, nothing less. and like pop crazes in music, it overshadowed countless masterpieces and was hideously overrated. It doesn’t deserve to be on any list. It needs to be forgotten. And thank god the craze is starting to fade. People are finally moving on and people aren’t afraid anymore to say that FFVII is overrated.  Of course people still like to limit themselves and refuse to keep their nostalgia under control.  Well im not afraid to admit right now that I HATE FFVII. I have good reason to and im proud of it.

Wow...dude...you ever heard of having an opinnion? It seems as if the VGC community believes that FFVII was a better game than all the junk you just try to say was better than it. Get over it. It's the most popular game in the franchise (hopefully XIII changes that). and for all the right reasons.

well, here is a list of RPGs that I have beaten that have had better storylines, characters, replay value, gameplay innovation, environment diversity or a combination what I just listed, than FFVII.

 

seiken densetsu games
Chrono trigger
 FFIV, FFVI, FFIX or FFX
Legend of dragoon
chrono cross
star ocean
any shin megami tensei game
earthbound
startropics
xenogears
xenosaga games
skies of arkadia
ark the lad
vagrant story
rogue galaxy
fire emblem
golden sun

so, if there is a FFVII fan who has played all these games that can come forward and refute what I just said and still claim FFVII to be the best, bring it on. And I’ll listen, but I guarantee that you are wrong. There are better games out there that deserve theat #2 spot more than FFVII does.  as for opinions, If someone has only played only 5 or 6 RPGs (one of which being FFVII), how would they know which is the best of the genre much less the best game of all time? those kinds of people make up a huge majority of FFVII's fanbase, especially the more zealous ones. That is why its popularity gives it no merit. If you havent played more than 10 RPGs, than you dont have the viable knowledge or the right to say which is the best of all time. it may be an opinion, but its an ignorant, baseless one.  FFVII’s popularity means nothing.  And you may be wondering “ok mr smartypants, why was it so popular then and still popular today if it really wasn’t that great?” I have a one word answer to that question and it is the single force behind all of the pretentiousness, nostalgia, popularity, hype and success of FFVII…… “graphics.” That’s all. Everything leads back to it. Ponder it for a moment.

Gameplay – wasn’t really much different from 6 (though it was more chaotic and choppy).  Why did it seem revolutionary? Because it was using 3d polygon models instead of sprites. So, its simply graphics, nothing more.

Environments -- though midgar was cool, there wasnt a huge diversity of locations throughout the game. for example, FFVI brought you to way more interesting locations than FFVII ever did. so why do people praise the style of FFVII? im sure you saw this coming....... graphics

Storyline/characters – from a movie/literature critic standpoint, there really isn’t much depth to the characters of FFVII. Most are either pointless, annoying, melodramatic or shallow.  There nothing really dynamic or original about these characters (besides their big swords). So why do fans swear their allegiance to them. Because they were “wow’ed” by the clearer, more realistic appearances of them.  Once again, it all falls back on graphics.  If they all looked like sprites, they wouldn’t have all these fanboys today. You cant deny it.

Hype – it was the first 3D FF game, as the whole world today knows. So obviously, that gave it a lot of hype. In fact, that was the cause of all of its hype.  Graphics once again account for it.

Nostalgia – thanks to this hype, millions of kids played it. thanks to that and the graphics, it was instilled in their tiny brains as “amazing” and “the best.” Nothing could possibly overwrite something so nostalgic.  Millions of kids had this branded into their psyche. And why was that? Why was it so widespread and popular? Why did so many kids inevitably play it? The graphics.

 

In a nutshell, graphics begot hype, hype begot sales, sales begot a wide child demographic, the wide child demographic begot unprecedented nostalgia, and unprecedented nostalgia begot fanboys, universal acclaim and a popularity that overshadows everything else in the genre. All of this, because of one word…… “graphics.”

 

So is it any surprise, why huge RPG fans (or you could say experts) like myself, hate this game And why we look down upon people who put it on a pedestal?? Am I not alone here??

Your extreme hate and phrases like that take all the credibility from your posts turning it into simple fanboy claims.

What you consider fact(All the games you listed being better than FF7) is not more than an opinnion, I could argue reviewers that had played those games and rated FF7 higher are right as a fact, but it all ends in opinnion.

The true thing is that FF7 is very mainstream and popular and people remember it as a good game because it was a good game added to graphics(like it was a bad thing, all FF have had good graphics anyway), music, etc... People are making this award(?) bigger than what it is, it isnt important after all.

After all, if this was done with movies they would pick another good and popular moment and many people would also complain because of what they consider better moments in the movies they had watched, but in the end, it doesnt even matter since this thing doesnt mean anything more than giving recognition to a popular moment to get views or whatever the site wins with it.



the most shocking moment was Cloud in Women-clothes. :P



I'm a Foreigner, and as such, i am grateful for everyone pointing out any mistakes in my english posted above - only this way i'll be able to improve. thank you!

perpride said:
arbitor365 said:
perpride said:
arbitor365 said:
Fab_GS said:
arbitor365 said:
perpride said:
arbitor365 said:
perpride said:
Wow I can see this thread turned into an anti-FFVII thread, like usual.

yeah, I know........... I think Im starting to like this site XD

It doesn't matter what the topic at hand is either. If you are talking about anything that has to do with FFVII, there's always a million people that will pour into the thread just to let you know how garbage FFVII was. I'm glad VGC's top 100 games of all time clarified the true king of Final Fantasy.

Yeah, that list was bullshit and we all know it.  In the description they basically said "millions of people bought it and it was the most popular. Therefore it’s the best." they knew they couldnt put something like "it had the most innovative gameplay" or "it had the best storyline" or "it had the best gameplay for its genre" because none of that would have had any truth to it whatsoever. its absurd. any list that has FFVII at the top has no credibility at all.  (and neither does a list that puts "mario galaxy" above "mario 64."). I mean, there are dozens of RPGs that deserve that spot more, much less games from other categories. Are they seriously going to say that FFVII was the second most innovative and influential game OF ALL TIME???? More innovative than pong? More innovative than sinistar? More innovative than doom?? More innovative than Zelda 1??? More innovative than any NES game? It’s a joke.  FFVII is not the second best game ever made. It doesn’t even deserve to be in the top 50 let alone the top ten (I wouldn’t even put it in the top 100).  It did not revolutionize the genre just because it had 3D graphics. 3D RPGs were coming and they didn’t need FFVII in order to do so. It is just plain ignorance to think that we wouldn’t have 3D RPGs today if it weren’t for FFVII. Give me a fucking break.  I hope we get more FFVII hate threads, because that shit needs to get knocked down to size.


WOW You hate FFVII just because most people thinks it's better than Legend of Dragoon. There is something you need to accept here, people has DIFFERENT opinions.

You do know that the list wasn't about innovation nor influence. It is purely based on votes by VGC community, hence why FFVII, SMG and MGS4 being on the Top 10. Besides, you can't deny the impact FFVII made and how influential it was/is. It's definitely one of important games of all-time.

I will not deny that it made an impact, but I find that the impact was incredibly negative for the gaming industry and the RPG genre.  It was an early example of how oversaturation kills smaller franchises and hurts the diversity of a genre.  It inadvertently set up an arrogant mentality in an impressionable generation of young gamers and basically shoved countless titles (many of which that were superior) off the map.  It further cemented square into the industry and turned it into a behemoth.  FF was a pop craze in the video game community, nothing more, nothing less. and like pop crazes in music, it overshadowed countless masterpieces and was hideously overrated. It doesn’t deserve to be on any list. It needs to be forgotten. And thank god the craze is starting to fade. People are finally moving on and people aren’t afraid anymore to say that FFVII is overrated.  Of course people still like to limit themselves and refuse to keep their nostalgia under control.  Well im not afraid to admit right now that I HATE FFVII. I have good reason to and im proud of it.

Wow...dude...you ever heard of having an opinnion? It seems as if the VGC community believes that FFVII was a better game than all the junk you just try to say was better than it. Get over it. It's the most popular game in the franchise (hopefully XIII changes that). and for all the right reasons.

well, here is a list of RPGs that I have beaten that have had better storylines, characters, replay value, gameplay innovation, environment diversity or a combination what I just listed, than FFVII.

 

seiken densetsu games
Chrono trigger
 FFIV, FFVI, FFIX or FFX
Legend of dragoon
chrono cross
star ocean
any shin megami tensei game
earthbound
startropics
xenogears
xenosaga games
skies of arkadia
ark the lad
vagrant story
rogue galaxy
fire emblem
golden sun

so, if there is a FFVII fan who has played all these games that can come forward and refute what I just said and still claim FFVII to be the best, bring it on. And I’ll listen, but I guarantee that you are wrong. There are better games out there that deserve theat #2 spot more than FFVII does.  as for opinions, If someone has only played only 5 or 6 RPGs (one of which being FFVII), how would they know which is the best of the genre much less the best game of all time? those kinds of people make up a huge majority of FFVII's fanbase, especially the more zealous ones. That is why its popularity gives it no merit. If you havent played more than 10 RPGs, than you dont have the viable knowledge or the right to say which is the best of all time. it may be an opinion, but its an ignorant, baseless one.  FFVII’s popularity means nothing.  And you may be wondering “ok mr smartypants, why was it so popular then and still popular today if it really wasn’t that great?” I have a one word answer to that question and it is the single force behind all of the pretentiousness, nostalgia, popularity, hype and success of FFVII…… “graphics.” That’s all. Everything leads back to it. Ponder it for a moment.

Gameplay – wasn’t really much different from 6 (though it was more chaotic and choppy).  Why did it seem revolutionary? Because it was using 3d polygon models instead of sprites. So, its simply graphics, nothing more.

Environments -- though midgar was cool, there wasnt a huge diversity of locations throughout the game. for example, FFVI brought you to way more interesting locations than FFVII ever did. so why do people praise the style of FFVII? im sure you saw this coming....... graphics

Storyline/characters – from a movie/literature critic standpoint, there really isn’t much depth to the characters of FFVII. Most are either pointless, annoying, melodramatic or shallow.  There nothing really dynamic or original about these characters (besides their big swords). So why do fans swear their allegiance to them. Because they were “wow’ed” by the clearer, more realistic appearances of them.  Once again, it all falls back on graphics.  If they all looked like sprites, they wouldn’t have all these fanboys today. You cant deny it.

Hype – it was the first 3D FF game, as the whole world today knows. So obviously, that gave it a lot of hype. In fact, that was the cause of all of its hype.  Graphics once again account for it.

Nostalgia – thanks to this hype, millions of kids played it. thanks to that and the graphics, it was instilled in their tiny brains as “amazing” and “the best.” Nothing could possibly overwrite something so nostalgic.  Millions of kids had this branded into their psyche. And why was that? Why was it so widespread and popular? Why did so many kids inevitably play it? The graphics.

 

In a nutshell, graphics begot hype, hype begot sales, sales begot a wide child demographic, the wide child demographic begot unprecedented nostalgia, and unprecedented nostalgia begot fanboys, universal acclaim and a popularity that overshadows everything else in the genre. All of this, because of one word…… “graphics.”

 

So is it any surprise, why huge RPG fans (or you could say experts) like myself, hate this game And why we look down upon people who put it on a pedestal?? Am I not alone here??

There isn't a single person who has played EVERY GAME that has ever been made, however, everybody can rightfully pick a game that they believe is the greatest game of all time. In other words, I don't need to play every game to have a favorite game. The only games I haven't played from that List are Rogue Galaxy and Startropics. FFVII absolutley destroys every other game that you listed, so I'm going to assume those two are no exception. People are going to have different opinnions than you my friend, and you need to learn to live with that. Graphics have absolutley nothing to do with the popularity of FFVII, because every Final Fantasy looks exceptionally good for its time. For gods sake, half the games you listed aren't even good games, nevermind on the same platform as the greatest game of all time.

Graphics have absolutley nothing to do with the popularity of FFVII, because every Final Fantasy looks exceptionally good for its time."

 

now, thats just a lie. im sorry. thats like saying sex appeal had nothing to do with the sales of the DOA games?? im glad youre not in marketing.

 

"The only games I haven't played from that List are Rogue Galaxy and Startropics. FFVII absolutley destroys every other game that you listed"

wow. im Impressed. either you are a lair or your nostalgia has completely blinded you and you are in a complete state of denial.

 

"For gods sake, half the games you listed aren't even good games"

you amuse me. your fanboyism levels are through the roof at this point. You might as well be using the grammar of the typical fanboy and say “CRONO SUKZ FTW!!! FF7 PWNS THAT SHIT!! LOLOLOLOL” I would probably get the same impression.

 

anyway, lets look through a few games on my list and I will tell you why they are superior to FFVII.

 

ark the lad.  For the record, the only one I ever played was "twilight of spirits." the thing that makes it superior to FFVII is its plot and characters. I remember borrowing it from my uncle a few years back.  at first I thought "meh, this doesnt look that great." while playing it at first, I criticized it and made fun of it a bit, but as I got further I really started to grow attached to the characters and It really grew on me.  At first site, the game doesnt seem like much.  its a typical medevil RPG setting.  The thing that makes it exceptional is the story telling aspect.  It doesnt need a futuristic settings or a grungy style. It isnt as over the top or as flashy as FFVII and yet it tells a much deeper, much more gripping story and has much more interesting characters than FFVII could ever hope for.  It tugs at your heartstrings and at times is very dispiriting but it leaves you satisfied in the end. overall, it is definitely a much more enjoyable experience storywise. I also liked the gameplay but its hard to compare it to FFVII because they are totally different.

 

FFX.  Though it has received very harsh and unfair attacks, I find it to be one of the best FF games.  once again, this mainly falls under the story category.  FFX has a much deeper, much more tragic and well thought out plot than FFVII.  Though not all characters are incredibly deep (though most are), they are all likeable and unique.  A lot of people hated tidus, but I find him to be a much, much better protagonist than cloud.  Tidus actually has significant character development. he has problems ten times worse than cloud but you dont see him bitching about it.  I dont want to spoil the ending of the game for anyone who hasnt played it, but in the end he makes one of the biggest sacrifices of any main protagonist in FF history.  aside from tidus, there are other deep characters like jecht, auron, kimari, and yuna.  I cant even put into words how amazing the storyline is in FFX. the only final fantasy game that rivals it is FFVI or maybe FFIX but I think FFX wins by an inch.  as a side note, I also preferred the gameplay in FFX. it was refreshing to revert back to the pre-FFIV battle system.  I slightly prefer it over the ATB bar.

 

FFVI.  In all aspects a much, much, much superior game.  First of all, the characters are far more in depth and likeable than the characters in FFVII.  The gameplay is smoother.  the storyline of FFVI was heavily borrowed from (more like stolen from) in the making of FFVII (but lets not get into that rant). lets take a look at kefka. when choosing between kefka and sephiroth you are basicly choosing between A) a villain that is evil for the sake of being evil and just wants power and destruction, vs. B) a villain whose motives are not well thought out, and is nothing more than a mama's boy with identity issues and a temper. im going to go with "A" because at least he's well written character (despite his simplicity).  FFVI is a better game, period. but it will never be as recognized because all the FFVII fanboys have the same attitude, "who wants to play those 2D games??! ROFL LOLOL!!" its sad.

 

Legend of dragoon. the big one. this game stomps FFVII in every way. storyline wise, it is a masterpeice.  There are so many brilliant twists and every one of them were far more powerful than those in FFVII.  The characters are all amazingly well thought out and you can really feel for them.  The story itself starts out simple but gradually grows more complex.  everything comes into fruition and it doesnt have that directionless, static feel that FFVII had.  Seriously, I think they were just making it up as they went along through most of FFVII, but I digress.  The style in LOD is original, majestic and beautiful. It is interesting the way they integrate renaissance architecture and art into the game effectively. It brings you to much, much more imaginative and stunning places than FFVII.  the game itself is over twice as long as FFVII.  The music is way better.  FFVII had only a few memorable tunes.  there was the battle theme, the main boss theme, the arieth theme and the sephiroth theme. thats about it. and even those, werent that great.  The sephiroth theme is good, but overrated. the arieth theme is OK but its not a masterpiece.  legend of dragoon has countless songs that are awe inspiring (not to mention he OST itself is twice as big as FFVII’s.  here are just a few great songs.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4jq-J1B_4g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htZDQ40gocM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7ZlzHNjUr0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOjho4BoLSk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTYmx2o3puM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvDfIcMI3M4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoDQJ8hiQCI

the gameplay is also far more innovative. the addition, magic attack and dragoon addition systems were unique and added more depth and excitement into the battles.  FFVII did nothing to innovate FF's battle system.  it was FFVI's battle system all over again.  The graphics in LOD are better but its by a long shot.  LOD came out 3 years after FFVII but it looks like a thousand times better.  Not just the in game graphics are better. check out this cutscene.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkvEtD3TlJY

now, graphics are not what bought me into this game. let me tell you a long story about legend of dragoon and FFVII. when I was relatively young when FFVII came out (around the age of all the other impressionable kids that would turn into deluded FFVII fanfags)  I played FFVII at a friends house, and I didn’t really like it. He insisted that it was a masterpiece and made me I borrow it. I was like “ok, whatever.” I went home and played it, and I still didn’t like it. I beat the first disk and a half, but I couldn’t take anymore. I went back to playing FFVI and earthbound on the SNES. Those I enjoyed ten times more. I just wasn’t intrigued by FFVII’s story or characters, I wasn’t entertained by the gameplay or pointless side missions. Overall, the game left a bad taste in my mouth.  A few years later, legend of dragoon came out. I hadn’t heard of it but one of my Dad’s friends let us borrow it, FFVII and a few other games.  Throughout the years after my first experience with FFVII, I had heard all the hype and how the game was so amazing. So I tried it again……. I felt exactly the same as I did before. It was boring, had a shallow plot and it offered nothing to draw me in.  I decided to pop in legend of dragoon. Immediately I knew it was better. The gameplay was more fun, the story already seemed more interesting and it only got better the more I played it. Everything about it screamed perfection and then I looked back at FFVII. I just didn’t get it.  The characters sucked, the gameplay wasn’t that great and it was just not enjoyable.  What was so great about that game? Well, years later after beating legend of dragoon twice, I played FFVII again. This time I was determined to like it. And this time I beat it. But still, it left me feeling empty afterwards. At that point, I had played all the classics like Chrono cross/trigger, FFVI, FFIV, startropics, vagrant story, FFIX, seiken densetsu 2 and 3 and skies of arcadia. I sat there and thought to myself. “you know. FFVII isn’t all that great.  All these other games left bigger impressions, kept me interested and presented much more immersive plots and gameplay. FFVII just pails in comparison.  There are far better games and legend of dragoon is one of them. It never let me down. Forget FFVII. It has been nothing but a disappointment and a waste of time.” From then one I forgot about FFVII. I continued playing more and more RPGs in the PS2 age and I found many more games that still remain classic to me.  Eventually once I got into internet reviews and gaming forums (in roughly 2005) I noticed a trend.  Everyone was praising FFVII.  Everywhere it was treated like it was fucking shakespear. I thought, “well they must have played it as a kid and they have nostalgia for it. Ha, I feel sorry for them. Im glad most people don’t think that.” But as I went on different threads and forums, FFVII just kept popping up.  I couldn’t understand it.  That game was not one of the best RPGs ever made. I knew that for a fact. So why couldn’t everyone else? What is so great about FFVII??  I asked this question and what did I get for my reasonable inquiry? I got ridiculed and flamed up the ass for saying or even thinking anything negative about it. I saw it all on the forums. FFVII, #3 best game of all time. FFVII, #1 best RPG of all time (that was a frequent one). FFVII, 1# best final fantasy game of all time. “what the fuck is wrong with you people??” I thought.  “what is so great about this game?? Tell me, please! Because im in the fucking dark here.” they answered by saying how it had “the best story ever,” “best characters ever” and “best gameplay ever.” I was flabbergasted by this. Every thing they said that was supposedly great about it, were the factors I disliked most.  I hated the characters, I hated the gameplay and I hated the story. At this point I was beyond humorous observation. I was beginning to become angry.  Year after year, people would praise FFVII on every forum. They would recommend it to people saying “it’s the best. You haven’t seen what the playstation can do until you’ve played it. You have to play it if youre an RPG fan!!!” When I would make a thread about the top RPGs, FFVII was always put above my favorite games by everyone.  I decided to give the game one more chance.  I played it and…… it still wasn’t anything amazing. In fact, I disliked even more. I was older and wiser. I found even more flaws than I had found previously playing it.  I finally concluded that all these people were nostalgic morons and I did research into why FFVII was so popular. I found the answer. The graphics. That was it. It explained everything.  Once I knew that, I saw FFVII with different eyes.  I saw it for what it was. An overrated, overhyped pile of shit. Now, the straw the broke the camel’s back was when I decided to look up some reviews of Legend of dragoon.  It was just about 2 years ago actually.  What I found horrified me.  I found some reviews that gave it the recognition it deserved but the majority were absurd, illogical, bias, asinine rants of FFVII fanboys claiming how much it ripped off FFVII and how it was inferior.  I saw some of the most idiotic lame-brained attacks against it by even some of the big sites like gamespot, and IGN.  From then on I realized hat FFVII is more than a craze. It’s a plague. It’s a scourge. It’s a disease and it needs to be cured. Someone needs to spread the word.  Someone needs to reverse this trend.  Who knows how many amazing games like LOD have been smothered by the idiocy and ignorance that emanates from the FFVII fanbase.  I wrote essays, reviews and blogs about it and never have I run into a single FFVII fan that has presented any real evidence of FFVII’s greatness.  They make the same arguments you have made. “Its classic!! Its popular for a reason! It is the best!!” I have concluded with absolute certainty that FFVII is the most overrated game of all time and it is not a masterpiece.  I would have given it an 8/10 (barely).  I probably deserved less inherently, but because it was one of the first 3d RPGs it deserves a little slack.  Now I might hate this game with every fiber of being but im still fair.  Anyone not willing to admit that there are better RPGs than FFVII needs to grow up and broaden their horizons.  Legend of Dragoon is just one of the many games that are superior.  People need to get out of denial.  FFVII is not an amazing game.  There is simply nothing in it that is amazing. Storyline, gameplay and replay value are all mediocre.  That’s all there is to it.  Well, there you go. You wanted to know why I hate FFVII so much and why I have come to believe my opinion is nearly fact.  FFVII is not the best Game ever made. It is not the best story ever made. It is not the best final fantasy game ever made.  It is not the best RPG ever made.  Its not the best PS1 game ever made.  that it. I dont know what else can be said.  If FFVII makes you unable to fully appreciate any other games, than im overjoyed that I never got sucked in like so many unfortunate people.

 

 



"Enough expository banter! Now we fight like men! And ladies! And ladies who dress like men! For I am Gilgamesh...it is morphing time!"

Well, the thread has derailed into the typical FFVII debate.

I'll just enter in and say, while I agree with Arbitor365's concept that FFVIIs story and characters are overrated and multiple games, even when it was released, were better, I think we went overboard. I'll just say two things.

One, Just play Suikoden. The original one. It came out a year before FFVII and featured many similarities (including a concept similar to Materia, similar plot points and etc). If they didn't take ideas from the game...there's some crazy coincidence going on there. But all I'm going to say there is, the gameplay and story are better than FFVII. As well as the graphics in my opinion, simply because it was a more advanced version of 2D sprites while FFVII was a really ugly early version of 3D which was hard to see and even play at times (but was later perfected in FFVIII).

Two...people go on and on about which Final Fantasy game has the best characters and storyline. Frankly...I find them all to be bad. They're all rather cheesy, overly dramatic and have the same ridiculous plot points. Someone important always dies halfway through, someone always 'betrays' you, someone always 'saves your party', there's always a 'chase scene', etc. There's a reason people make massive parallels to the games and Star Wars...because it really does seem like Lucas fricken wrote the scripts for the game. And that's not a good thing.

So really...why do people need to defend the script for FFVII? Even the creators said the game was unfinished, rushed in development and wasn't as good as they wanted it to be. Its pretty evident to me the majority of the reason its so popular is hype, not so much content. Even for a Final Fantasy game, there's plenty of other better ones.



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@Arbitor: I got this info from RPGFan. http://www.rpgfan.com/soundtracks/dragoon/index.html

LOD has a total of 50 tracks in one CD and 72 minutes. "On the whole, Legend of Dragoon is a passable CD if you give it a chance to sink in, but compared to most of the game music that is released these days, it really is no competition. Those who have played the game will no doubt find themselves fonder of the music than the rest, and I direct my recommendation towards them. However, if you've never played the game nor heard its music, and are looking for the next great RPG soundtrack, I advise looking elsewhere. Although this is a decent attempt by Takao Miratsu and Dennis Martin, as overhyped as the game was, it lives nowhere close to expectations. If you're willing to be adventurous, though, you can find a copy at Game Music Online for about $28."


FFVII has a total of 85 tracks in 4 CDs. 271 minutes, actually the first disc has more content than the whole LOD one.

"I've basically exhausted every positive adjective I can think of, so I'll leave off on the praise in this ending. Anyway, you get the point: this soundtrack has some flaws, but the rest of it is great. If you disagree, it's likely for one of two reasons. Either you can't stand the sound of the MIDI synth here, or you really don't like Uematsu's compositions. Maybe both."

The midi thing is easyly forgotten when you hear the better versions in newer CDs or FF advent children versions. Also, anything I heard in the videos you posted wasnt on par with what Uematsu makes, and FFVII wasnt the exception.

Now, I can accept you may have a bad ear, and I wont bother arguing the other points, but all of the rest of your posts have the flaw that are based simply in personal opinnion. Maybe you were the one that fell in its own nostalgia after all.



@ arbitor365 - it's great to see your enthusiasm towards LOD. The game is a masterpiece and deserves great praise. But what you've pretty done this entire thread is try and tell me that your opinnion is right and mine is wrong. I'm not going to start having a list war with you about why FFVII absolutley stomps every game you listed. You know why? Cause you have your own opinnion of the game. I'll just say that it is the best game ever created. Call me a liar if that makes you feel better about it, but putting FFVII and Ark the Lad on the same level is a joke to me. 



pastro243 said:
@Arbitor: I got this info from RPGFan. http://www.rpgfan.com/soundtracks/dragoon/index.html

LOD has a total of 50 tracks in one CD and 72 minutes. "On the whole, Legend of Dragoon is a passable CD if you give it a chance to sink in, but compared to most of the game music that is released these days, it really is no competition. Those who have played the game will no doubt find themselves fonder of the music than the rest, and I direct my recommendation towards them. However, if you've never played the game nor heard its music, and are looking for the next great RPG soundtrack, I advise looking elsewhere. Although this is a decent attempt by Takao Miratsu and Dennis Martin, as overhyped as the game was, it lives nowhere close to expectations. If you're willing to be adventurous, though, you can find a copy at Game Music Online for about $28."


FFVII has a total of 85 tracks in 4 CDs. 271 minutes, actually the first disc has more content than the whole LOD one.

"I've basically exhausted every positive adjective I can think of, so I'll leave off on the praise in this ending. Anyway, you get the point: this soundtrack has some flaws, but the rest of it is great. If you disagree, it's likely for one of two reasons. Either you can't stand the sound of the MIDI synth here, or you really don't like Uematsu's compositions. Maybe both."

The midi thing is easyly forgotten when you hear the better versions in newer CDs or FF advent children versions. Also, anything I heard in the videos you posted wasnt on par with what Uematsu makes, and FFVII wasnt the exception.

Now, I can accept you may have a bad ear, and I wont bother arguing the other points, but all of the rest of your posts have the flaw that are based simply in personal opinnion. Maybe you were the one that fell in its own nostalgia after all.

Thats only half right. true the OST of FFVII is bigger, but there is actually alot more music in LOD.  There are nearly a hundred tracks that didnt make it into the Legend of dragoon OST. dont ask me why. if you play it, you will notice tracks like the Shirley’s shrine theme, the volcano theme, kongol's theme, the virage themes as well as countless others arent in the OST.  It is a very incomplete OST (which is the reason I didnt buy it).  Plus I find the quality of FFVII to be unappealing. listen to this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGVg_nsYktQ

I would much rather listen to many 8-bit or 16-bit themes than this synth raping of my senses.  the overall sound was just ugly and I dont see how people can praise this OST.  LOD had much more mellow atmospheric songs that fit their sceneries perfectly.  It also could switch gears and have great songs for action sequences and whatnot.  Now, I don’t really care what this OST reviewer says because it sounds like he didn’t even play the game.  When he said

“Well, after reading review after review, I'd realized that it was merely a mediocre attempt by Sony to draw in slews of players with pretty visuals.”

It was a dead giveaway.  So, basically all he did was read some of the many moronic pretentious reviews by final fantasy fanboys and came to the conclusion that the game was crap. So going into it, he already had a negative outlook on it. That doesn’t sound like a credible reviewing source, does it?

 

Well, I guess its all opinionated when you get down to it. But why, of all the things I said, did you choose to debate this with me? I just briefly mentioned the music.  True I should have worded it better by saying “LOD has more music” instead of saying “LOD has a bigger OST,” but that was a minor issue.



"Enough expository banter! Now we fight like men! And ladies! And ladies who dress like men! For I am Gilgamesh...it is morphing time!"

arbitor365 said:
pastro243 said:
@Arbitor: I got this info from RPGFan. http://www.rpgfan.com/soundtracks/dragoon/index.html

LOD has a total of 50 tracks in one CD and 72 minutes. "On the whole, Legend of Dragoon is a passable CD if you give it a chance to sink in, but compared to most of the game music that is released these days, it really is no competition. Those who have played the game will no doubt find themselves fonder of the music than the rest, and I direct my recommendation towards them. However, if you've never played the game nor heard its music, and are looking for the next great RPG soundtrack, I advise looking elsewhere. Although this is a decent attempt by Takao Miratsu and Dennis Martin, as overhyped as the game was, it lives nowhere close to expectations. If you're willing to be adventurous, though, you can find a copy at Game Music Online for about $28."


FFVII has a total of 85 tracks in 4 CDs. 271 minutes, actually the first disc has more content than the whole LOD one.

"I've basically exhausted every positive adjective I can think of, so I'll leave off on the praise in this ending. Anyway, you get the point: this soundtrack has some flaws, but the rest of it is great. If you disagree, it's likely for one of two reasons. Either you can't stand the sound of the MIDI synth here, or you really don't like Uematsu's compositions. Maybe both."

The midi thing is easyly forgotten when you hear the better versions in newer CDs or FF advent children versions. Also, anything I heard in the videos you posted wasnt on par with what Uematsu makes, and FFVII wasnt the exception.

Now, I can accept you may have a bad ear, and I wont bother arguing the other points, but all of the rest of your posts have the flaw that are based simply in personal opinnion. Maybe you were the one that fell in its own nostalgia after all.

Thats only half right. true the OST of FFVII is bigger, but there is actually alot more music in LOD.  There are nearly a hundred tracks that didnt make it into the Legend of dragoon OST. dont ask me why. if you play it, you will notice tracks like the Shirley’s shrine theme, the volcano theme, kongol's theme, the virage themes as well as countless others arent in the OST.  It is a very incomplete OST (which is the reason I didnt buy it).  Plus I find the quality of FFVII to be unappealing. listen to this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGVg_nsYktQ

I would much rather listen to many 8-bit or 16-bit themes than this synth raping of my senses.  the overall sound was just ugly and I dont see how people can praise this OST.  LOD had much more mellow atmospheric songs that fit their sceneries perfectly.  It also could switch gears and have great songs for action sequences and whatnot.  Now, I don’t really care what this OST reviewer says because it sounds like he didn’t even play the game.  When he said

“Well, after reading review after review, I'd realized that it was merely a mediocre attempt by Sony to draw in slews of players with pretty visuals.”

It was a dead giveaway.  So, basically all he did was read some of the many moronic pretentious reviews by final fantasy fanboys and came to the conclusion that the game was crap. So going into it, he already had a negative outlook on it. That doesn’t sound like a credible reviewing source, does it?

 

Well, I guess its all opinionated when you get down to it. But why, of all the things I said, did you choose to debate this with me? I just briefly mentioned the music.  True I should have worded it better by saying “LOD has more music” instead of saying “LOD has a bigger OST,” but that was a minor issue.

Because you wrote a wall of text I didnt read and I cant see how I could argue gameplay and graphics since I didnt play LOD and Im not an expert on graphic things, I only cared about the music thing.

Also, you should provide some source that says the OST is incomplete and the correct number of proper tracks and size of each if you pretend us to believe you, I already said the size in just one CD of FFVII is as big as the one in LOD in the case this game would have to have like 4 times the ammount of unreleased tracks than the ones it has in the OST.

Other thing, you dont need to play the game to apreciate music, its simple, you hear the music and review it, he found it shallow and lacking and added to that, reviews said the game was average, kinda makes sense. Also, its a shallow statement to call everyone that reviewed LOD in a negative way a Final fantasy fanboy and its pretty clear why.

Also, on FFVII OST the bad thing is the medium in which it was recorded, the compositions blow the LOD ones I heard.



pastro243 said:
arbitor365 said:
pastro243 said:
@Arbitor: I got this info from RPGFan. http://www.rpgfan.com/soundtracks/dragoon/index.html

LOD has a total of 50 tracks in one CD and 72 minutes. "On the whole, Legend of Dragoon is a passable CD if you give it a chance to sink in, but compared to most of the game music that is released these days, it really is no competition. Those who have played the game will no doubt find themselves fonder of the music than the rest, and I direct my recommendation towards them. However, if you've never played the game nor heard its music, and are looking for the next great RPG soundtrack, I advise looking elsewhere. Although this is a decent attempt by Takao Miratsu and Dennis Martin, as overhyped as the game was, it lives nowhere close to expectations. If you're willing to be adventurous, though, you can find a copy at Game Music Online for about $28."


FFVII has a total of 85 tracks in 4 CDs. 271 minutes, actually the first disc has more content than the whole LOD one.

"I've basically exhausted every positive adjective I can think of, so I'll leave off on the praise in this ending. Anyway, you get the point: this soundtrack has some flaws, but the rest of it is great. If you disagree, it's likely for one of two reasons. Either you can't stand the sound of the MIDI synth here, or you really don't like Uematsu's compositions. Maybe both."

The midi thing is easyly forgotten when you hear the better versions in newer CDs or FF advent children versions. Also, anything I heard in the videos you posted wasnt on par with what Uematsu makes, and FFVII wasnt the exception.

Now, I can accept you may have a bad ear, and I wont bother arguing the other points, but all of the rest of your posts have the flaw that are based simply in personal opinnion. Maybe you were the one that fell in its own nostalgia after all.

Thats only half right. true the OST of FFVII is bigger, but there is actually alot more music in LOD.  There are nearly a hundred tracks that didnt make it into the Legend of dragoon OST. dont ask me why. if you play it, you will notice tracks like the Shirley’s shrine theme, the volcano theme, kongol's theme, the virage themes as well as countless others arent in the OST.  It is a very incomplete OST (which is the reason I didnt buy it).  Plus I find the quality of FFVII to be unappealing. listen to this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGVg_nsYktQ

I would much rather listen to many 8-bit or 16-bit themes than this synth raping of my senses.  the overall sound was just ugly and I dont see how people can praise this OST.  LOD had much more mellow atmospheric songs that fit their sceneries perfectly.  It also could switch gears and have great songs for action sequences and whatnot.  Now, I don’t really care what this OST reviewer says because it sounds like he didn’t even play the game.  When he said

“Well, after reading review after review, I'd realized that it was merely a mediocre attempt by Sony to draw in slews of players with pretty visuals.”

It was a dead giveaway.  So, basically all he did was read some of the many moronic pretentious reviews by final fantasy fanboys and came to the conclusion that the game was crap. So going into it, he already had a negative outlook on it. That doesn’t sound like a credible reviewing source, does it?

 

Well, I guess its all opinionated when you get down to it. But why, of all the things I said, did you choose to debate this with me? I just briefly mentioned the music.  True I should have worded it better by saying “LOD has more music” instead of saying “LOD has a bigger OST,” but that was a minor issue.

Because you wrote a wall of text I didnt read and I cant see how I could argue gameplay and graphics since I didnt play LOD and Im not an expert on graphic things, I only cared about the music thing.

Also, you should provide some source that says the OST is incomplete and the correct number of proper tracks and size of each if you pretend us to believe you, I already said the size in just one CD of FFVII is as big as the one in LOD in the case this game would have to have like 4 times the ammount of unreleased tracks than the ones it has in the OST.

Other thing, you dont need to play the game to apreciate music, its simple, you hear the music and review it, he found it shallow and lacking and added to that, reviews said the game was average, kinda makes sense. Also, its a shallow statement to call everyone that reviewed LOD in a negative way a Final fantasy fanboy and its pretty clear why.

Also, on FFVII OST the bad thing is the medium in which it was recorded, the compositions blow the LOD ones I heard.

You don’t believe me about the bias of the majority of these reviewers. Ok. Lets take a look at a few.

 

Heres a nice one

http://www.gamecritics.com/review/legendragoon/main.php

 

in this review we see an obvious FFVII fanboy. Now, what leads me to assume he is a fanboy? Well, the fact he says the word “FFVII” 8 times in his review is a subtle clue. he makes the typical fanboy claim that LOD is a ripoff of FFVII.  What are some of his prime arguments? Lets take a look at ben’s arguments

 

“Well, here I am writing my review, and all I can think about is its similarity to FF7, and how stale and unoriginal the whole experience is. This game is such a rip-off of Square's FF7 that I can't believe Sony hasn't been taken to court for copyright infringement.”

 

Well lets see here.  Lets take a look at the backstories of both games. 

 

FFVII takes place in a grungy futuristic sci fi setting.  In long ago times, jenova came to earth to destroy it but shinra took control of her power and used it for their benefit. shinra, is using its factories to literally suck the life out of the planet and uses superhuman “soldiers” injected with jenova cells to do their bidding. A small group of rebels code named “avalanche” need to take the company down to save the planet.

 

Lets look at legend of dragoon’s backstory.  It takes place in a midevil/renaissance period in an unknown.  In the beginning this world was empty, until the god, named Soa, bestowed a seed upon the earth.  It grew into a divine tree from which all life originated.  The two dominant races, the winglys and the humans were at odds with each other.  the winglys dominated the human race and even the gods themselves.  The human emperor diaz called upon the dragoons (human incarnates of dragons) to free the empire.  Fighting along side their dragons, the dragoons destroyed the winglys and freed the world but they all perished until their future descendants would use their powers again to bring balance to the world.

 

Well…………….. the storylines are nothing alike, but im game Ben.  Show me what you got.

 

“Here we go again with another case of "here we go again." Remember Cloud and Tifa from FF7? They've both gone to video game heaven and have been reincarnated as Dart and Shana in Dragoon.”

 

Yes….. even though their characters have no similarities to each other, they are a ripoff because they a male and female.  as we all know FFVII was the first video game in history to have a love interest right?  it was the first to have a male and female main character right?  yeah, who cares if the character’s personalities and looks are nothing alike!  I mean, luke skywalker, and batman…. Theyre both exactly the same because they’re both main characters and they’re both males.  I just love logic don’t you!?!

 

“Maybe it's a blessing in disguise. Dragoon's definition of love spares us from reading more of its poorly translated dialogue, once again proving that the genre still hasn't evolved past Final Fantasy II is some respects.”

 

Yes, because, four or five grammatical errors in a 4 disk, 50 + hour game is a real bangup job wouldn’t you say?

 

“The characters use the word "bastard" a lot, and there's even a Bastard Sword! I guess the idea of an illegitimate sword is a new one, or does it mean that only bastards can use the sword? That would make Dart the first bastard hero in videogames wouldn't it? Either way, it's the extent to which Dragoon breaks new ground.”

 

Yes, im sure it has nothing to do with the french term for a longsword in the late renaissance period. Noooo.

 

“But let's not focus solely on the one-dimensional characters and bad writing when there are so many other aspects of Dragoon that follow proven RPG conventions. How about the look of the game, which mirrors FF7 in practically every way imaginable?”

 

Yes because this,

 

 

 is just like this

 

 

  Who cares about setting, art style or themes?!  As long as it uses simlar graphic technology, its a complete ripoff.

 

“The graphics are made up of pre-rendered, still images—on top of which the polygonal characters move about. Of course, even when your party grows to as many as six characters, you only see the main character (Dart) walking around”

 

That is just bullshit!! What kind of shitty game would have something like that??

 

 

oh……… ouch

 

“And even though the whole group always travels together, only three of them can fight at once. I guess if you could control more than that during a battle, the game wouldn't be like FF7 anymore, and we can't have that can we?”

 

Yeah! Even though having 3 party members has been a staple in RPGs since the SNES age, Dragoon is ripping off FFVII.  Why? Because you said so that’s why!  Youre a professional game reviewer!! YOUR WORD IS LAW!!!!

 

“The battles take place in 3-D, and are randomly—annoyingly—triggered.”

 

That is terrible!! What kind of RPG would have something like that??

 

well that and about every RPG ever made.

 

“Afterwards, we get a shot of the good guys celebrating their victory by twirling their weapons in the air to triumphant music. In case you're wondering, we experienced the exact same scenario in FF7. If you think you'll get tired of sitting through that after a while, run for the hills, because in Dragoon battles are a constant, and they follow the same format every time.”

 

Yes!! because celebrating after battles is a trait copyrighted to FFVII! What a strange coincidence that characters have been doing this in every RPG since the NES.  Whatever! It doesn’t matter!! Dragoon had no right to utilize their 3D graphic animations.  They should have had their characters sitting there, completely frozen with monotone music!! What were they thinking?!!?

 

“I should mention that some very, very minor changes were made in the process of ripping off FF7, probably so Sony can say their game is just different enough to justify its existence. Limit Breaks have been replaced in Dragoon by Additions, which require”

 

Yes, because even though these moves look nothing the same and have none of the same controls, it is a ripofff!!!!  As we all know FFVII was the first and should be the only RPG to feature special moves!! I mean….. wow!! How can they stoop so low as to have special moves in their game!! They should be taken to fucking court!!!!!!

 

“timely button presses during battle to execute more powerful attacks. It's really just a cheap attempt at creating more interest in the boring combat sequences”

 

psh!! Trying introduce skill and innovation into a game! What were they thinking!!!!! These must be the worst game designers ever

 

“We've seen the word "dragoon" used in other RPGs.”

 

Yeah! Like the one……………… the one with the………… you know…. The RPG…….. the one with dragoons……………. that no one can think of …… lets continue

 

“Dragoon is four discs full of contrived storytelling, repetitious action and RPG clichés”

 

I agree any RPG that possesses the basic fundamentals of the genre is cliché and unoriginal!!!! As for repetitious action I totally agree!!! Any RPGs with repetitious action should be burned!!

 

 

ok, FFVII. Go away now.

 

 

 

 

So theres your typical legend of dragoon reviewer. Full of bias, fallacies and mindless comparisons to FFVII. this is common.  in fact, there are even more blatently bias reviews like this.  Why don’t we take a look at IGN?

 

http://psx.ign.com/articles/163/163238p1.html

 

lets look at their reasoning to give LOD a 7/10

 

5.5 Presentation
Aside from a few irksome bits of shop design, the interface is fine, but the translation is substandard in many ways, which does considerable harm to the story.

 

It got a severely sub-par rating in presentation. that is absurd. it got a pathetic score for what? Because the translation inst good? Are you shitting me? There were 2 or 3 translation errors in the whole game and the rest was beautifully translated and somehow it is substandard? Must I remind IGN all the awkward translations in FFVII?? Even if it was a big deal, is it worth knocking it down a bunch of stars?? Their reasoning is missing something. “REASONS.” The game is presented in an original, stunning majestic and regal manner.  It is straightforward and its well polished.  The world is believable, yet stylish. It is gritty, yet colorful. The story is well played out and everything has cohersion.  So allow me to correct you IGN.

 

It gets at least a 9/10 for presentation

 

 

9.0 Graphics
Lovely backgrounds, amazing CG, and some very impressive 3D bosses (the Divine Dragon is something else). Very high marks here.

 

I know to the average person this wouldn’t seem like a big deal, but lets stop for a second and think about this.  Legend of dragoon did not get a 10/10 graphically. Why not? Whats holding it back? It had, by far, the best graphics of any PS1 game.  That is a fact. Nothing surpassed it. It was the best looking game of its time and console. The fact that they fail to recognize it here, just shows that they are biased against it.

 

Graphics 10/10 (it deserves no less)

 

 

7.5 Sound
The dub rings rather harshly in my ears, but the soundtrack has some mellow, yet memorable songs.

 

What is he even talking about??? The dub? You mean the cutscenes? First of all, this was one of the first RPGs to have voices in cutscenes. It sounds great and the acting isn’t bad. How is that an issue? Second of all, even if the FMVs were torturous, there aren’t that many of them, so it wouldn’t be a constant issue. The music is astounding and it contrasts and melds with the environments in a unique and powerful way. Allow me to correct you again IGN

 

Sound, at least a 9/10

 

6.0 Gameplay
The Addition system demands too much precision combined with too much repetition, and the Dragoon transformations are pretty, but often superfluous. 5.0 Lasting Appeal
Getting around the world map is too tedious for much rose-smelling, and a replay is unlikely given the dull first disk and a half.

 

 

That is just a plain lie. There nothing opinionated about it.  The addition system is not that hard.  I was 8 years old when I first played LOD and even back then, the addition system was not hard at all.  So don’t sit there and fucking tell me that it is too hard for the average gamer. And to give it a sub-par rating for anything difficulty related is absurd in its own right.  the addition system was entertaining, and innovative.  Addressing it like a problem is stupefyingly moronic. How the fuck do you live with yourself IGN?  The gameplay involving additions, magic spells and dragoon attacks all involved some kind of skill and precision. It actually took you out of your comfort zone and kept the game invigorating. It was a hell of a lot less repetitive and boring than FFVII.

 

Gameplay, at least an 9/10

 

 

 

IGN is just plain wrong. That’s all there is to it.  They are completely wrong about this game. Their reasons are not valid (an example would be their complaint about the difficulty).  They nit pick at things that aren’t even issues and they simply make stuff up. Im sure you don’t know what im talking about because you didn’t play LOD but im serious, all the negative reviews are the same. Bias, illogical and inaccurate.  I have just scratched the surface of this problem.  The fact is, there is no valid reason to hate legend of dragoon. Everything about it is perfect. Someone may not care for the style but they have to admit it’s a great game.  But you see, people don’t want to admit it.  So they make reviews like these saying “uhhhh its too hard” or “uuhh the translation is bad.” Its pathetic. This is what FFVII created. Stuck up, pretentious, fanboys that lash out at games that try to compete with their beloved game.  Do you want more evidence that these reviewers are liars and fanboys, because I could look up more if you want.



"Enough expository banter! Now we fight like men! And ladies! And ladies who dress like men! For I am Gilgamesh...it is morphing time!"