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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Why is FF7's shocking moment considered the most shocking *spoilers*

My turn:

FUCK!

I'm getting FFVII in 5 days you ass!

Oh wait, I knew Aeris (Aerith?) dies.



Kimi wa ne tashika ni ano toki watashi no soba ni ita

Itsudatte itsudatte itsudatte

Sugu yoko de waratteita

Nakushitemo torimodosu kimi wo

I will never leave you

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I didn't think it was a big deal. People died or left the party in other FFs too.



 

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Let's get back to topic, to answer the op, the ffvii shocker is seen as the biggest because ffvii s considered by many, including myself and a shitload of other vgc users, as the best game of all time.

FFVII FTW!!!



arbitor365 said:
pastro243 said:
arbitor365 said:
pastro243 said:
@Arbitor: I got this info from RPGFan. http://www.rpgfan.com/soundtracks/dragoon/index.html

LOD has a total of 50 tracks in one CD and 72 minutes. "On the whole, Legend of Dragoon is a passable CD if you give it a chance to sink in, but compared to most of the game music that is released these days, it really is no competition. Those who have played the game will no doubt find themselves fonder of the music than the rest, and I direct my recommendation towards them. However, if you've never played the game nor heard its music, and are looking for the next great RPG soundtrack, I advise looking elsewhere. Although this is a decent attempt by Takao Miratsu and Dennis Martin, as overhyped as the game was, it lives nowhere close to expectations. If you're willing to be adventurous, though, you can find a copy at Game Music Online for about $28."


FFVII has a total of 85 tracks in 4 CDs. 271 minutes, actually the first disc has more content than the whole LOD one.

"I've basically exhausted every positive adjective I can think of, so I'll leave off on the praise in this ending. Anyway, you get the point: this soundtrack has some flaws, but the rest of it is great. If you disagree, it's likely for one of two reasons. Either you can't stand the sound of the MIDI synth here, or you really don't like Uematsu's compositions. Maybe both."

The midi thing is easyly forgotten when you hear the better versions in newer CDs or FF advent children versions. Also, anything I heard in the videos you posted wasnt on par with what Uematsu makes, and FFVII wasnt the exception.

Now, I can accept you may have a bad ear, and I wont bother arguing the other points, but all of the rest of your posts have the flaw that are based simply in personal opinnion. Maybe you were the one that fell in its own nostalgia after all.

Thats only half right. true the OST of FFVII is bigger, but there is actually alot more music in LOD.  There are nearly a hundred tracks that didnt make it into the Legend of dragoon OST. dont ask me why. if you play it, you will notice tracks like the Shirley’s shrine theme, the volcano theme, kongol's theme, the virage themes as well as countless others arent in the OST.  It is a very incomplete OST (which is the reason I didnt buy it).  Plus I find the quality of FFVII to be unappealing. listen to this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGVg_nsYktQ

I would much rather listen to many 8-bit or 16-bit themes than this synth raping of my senses.  the overall sound was just ugly and I dont see how people can praise this OST.  LOD had much more mellow atmospheric songs that fit their sceneries perfectly.  It also could switch gears and have great songs for action sequences and whatnot.  Now, I don’t really care what this OST reviewer says because it sounds like he didn’t even play the game.  When he said

“Well, after reading review after review, I'd realized that it was merely a mediocre attempt by Sony to draw in slews of players with pretty visuals.”

It was a dead giveaway.  So, basically all he did was read some of the many moronic pretentious reviews by final fantasy fanboys and came to the conclusion that the game was crap. So going into it, he already had a negative outlook on it. That doesn’t sound like a credible reviewing source, does it?

 

Well, I guess its all opinionated when you get down to it. But why, of all the things I said, did you choose to debate this with me? I just briefly mentioned the music.  True I should have worded it better by saying “LOD has more music” instead of saying “LOD has a bigger OST,” but that was a minor issue.

Because you wrote a wall of text I didnt read and I cant see how I could argue gameplay and graphics since I didnt play LOD and Im not an expert on graphic things, I only cared about the music thing.

Also, you should provide some source that says the OST is incomplete and the correct number of proper tracks and size of each if you pretend us to believe you, I already said the size in just one CD of FFVII is as big as the one in LOD in the case this game would have to have like 4 times the ammount of unreleased tracks than the ones it has in the OST.

Other thing, you dont need to play the game to apreciate music, its simple, you hear the music and review it, he found it shallow and lacking and added to that, reviews said the game was average, kinda makes sense. Also, its a shallow statement to call everyone that reviewed LOD in a negative way a Final fantasy fanboy and its pretty clear why.

Also, on FFVII OST the bad thing is the medium in which it was recorded, the compositions blow the LOD ones I heard.

You don’t believe me about the bias of the majority of these reviewers. Ok. Lets take a look at a few.

 

Heres a nice one

http://www.gamecritics.com/review/legendragoon/main.php

 

in this review we see an obvious FFVII fanboy. Now, what leads me to assume he is a fanboy? Well, the fact he says the word “FFVII” 8 times in his review is a subtle clue. he makes the typical fanboy claim that LOD is a ripoff of FFVII.  What are some of his prime arguments? Lets take a look at ben’s arguments

 

“Well, here I am writing my review, and all I can think about is its similarity to FF7, and how stale and unoriginal the whole experience is. This game is such a rip-off of Square's FF7 that I can't believe Sony hasn't been taken to court for copyright infringement.”

 

Well lets see here.  Lets take a look at the backstories of both games. 

 

FFVII takes place in a grungy futuristic sci fi setting.  In long ago times, jenova came to earth to destroy it but shinra took control of her power and used it for their benefit. shinra, is using its factories to literally suck the life out of the planet and uses superhuman “soldiers” injected with jenova cells to do their bidding. A small group of rebels code named “avalanche” need to take the company down to save the planet.

 

Lets look at legend of dragoon’s backstory.  It takes place in a midevil/renaissance period in an unknown.  In the beginning this world was empty, until the god, named Soa, bestowed a seed upon the earth.  It grew into a divine tree from which all life originated.  The two dominant races, the winglys and the humans were at odds with each other.  the winglys dominated the human race and even the gods themselves.  The human emperor diaz called upon the dragoons (human incarnates of dragons) to free the empire.  Fighting along side their dragons, the dragoons destroyed the winglys and freed the world but they all perished until their future descendants would use their powers again to bring balance to the world.

 

Well…………….. the storylines are nothing alike, but im game Ben.  Show me what you got.

 

“Here we go again with another case of "here we go again." Remember Cloud and Tifa from FF7? They've both gone to video game heaven and have been reincarnated as Dart and Shana in Dragoon.”

 

Yes….. even though their characters have no similarities to each other, they are a ripoff because they a male and female.  as we all know FFVII was the first video game in history to have a love interest right?  it was the first to have a male and female main character right?  yeah, who cares if the character’s personalities and looks are nothing alike!  I mean, luke skywalker, and batman…. Theyre both exactly the same because they’re both main characters and they’re both males.  I just love logic don’t you!?!

 

“Maybe it's a blessing in disguise. Dragoon's definition of love spares us from reading more of its poorly translated dialogue, once again proving that the genre still hasn't evolved past Final Fantasy II is some respects.”

 

Yes, because, four or five grammatical errors in a 4 disk, 50 + hour game is a real bangup job wouldn’t you say?

 

“The characters use the word "bastard" a lot, and there's even a Bastard Sword! I guess the idea of an illegitimate sword is a new one, or does it mean that only bastards can use the sword? That would make Dart the first bastard hero in videogames wouldn't it? Either way, it's the extent to which Dragoon breaks new ground.”

 

Yes, im sure it has nothing to do with the french term for a longsword in the late renaissance period. Noooo.

 

“But let's not focus solely on the one-dimensional characters and bad writing when there are so many other aspects of Dragoon that follow proven RPG conventions. How about the look of the game, which mirrors FF7 in practically every way imaginable?”

 

Yes because this,

 

 

 is just like this

 

 

  Who cares about setting, art style or themes?!  As long as it uses simlar graphic technology, its a complete ripoff.

 

“The graphics are made up of pre-rendered, still images—on top of which the polygonal characters move about. Of course, even when your party grows to as many as six characters, you only see the main character (Dart) walking around”

 

That is just bullshit!! What kind of shitty game would have something like that??

 

 

oh……… ouch

 

“And even though the whole group always travels together, only three of them can fight at once. I guess if you could control more than that during a battle, the game wouldn't be like FF7 anymore, and we can't have that can we?”

 

Yeah! Even though having 3 party members has been a staple in RPGs since the SNES age, Dragoon is ripping off FFVII.  Why? Because you said so that’s why!  Youre a professional game reviewer!! YOUR WORD IS LAW!!!!

 

“The battles take place in 3-D, and are randomly—annoyingly—triggered.”

 

That is terrible!! What kind of RPG would have something like that??

 

well that and about every RPG ever made.

 

“Afterwards, we get a shot of the good guys celebrating their victory by twirling their weapons in the air to triumphant music. In case you're wondering, we experienced the exact same scenario in FF7. If you think you'll get tired of sitting through that after a while, run for the hills, because in Dragoon battles are a constant, and they follow the same format every time.”

 

Yes!! because celebrating after battles is a trait copyrighted to FFVII! What a strange coincidence that characters have been doing this in every RPG since the NES.  Whatever! It doesn’t matter!! Dragoon had no right to utilize their 3D graphic animations.  They should have had their characters sitting there, completely frozen with monotone music!! What were they thinking?!!?

 

“I should mention that some very, very minor changes were made in the process of ripping off FF7, probably so Sony can say their game is just different enough to justify its existence. Limit Breaks have been replaced in Dragoon by Additions, which require”

 

Yes, because even though these moves look nothing the same and have none of the same controls, it is a ripofff!!!!  As we all know FFVII was the first and should be the only RPG to feature special moves!! I mean….. wow!! How can they stoop so low as to have special moves in their game!! They should be taken to fucking court!!!!!!

 

“timely button presses during battle to execute more powerful attacks. It's really just a cheap attempt at creating more interest in the boring combat sequences”

 

psh!! Trying introduce skill and innovation into a game! What were they thinking!!!!! These must be the worst game designers ever

 

“We've seen the word "dragoon" used in other RPGs.”

 

Yeah! Like the one……………… the one with the………… you know…. The RPG…….. the one with dragoons……………. that no one can think of …… lets continue

 

“Dragoon is four discs full of contrived storytelling, repetitious action and RPG clichés”

 

I agree any RPG that possesses the basic fundamentals of the genre is cliché and unoriginal!!!! As for repetitious action I totally agree!!! Any RPGs with repetitious action should be burned!!

 

 

ok, FFVII. Go away now.

 

 

 

 

So theres your typical legend of dragoon reviewer. Full of bias, fallacies and mindless comparisons to FFVII. this is common.  in fact, there are even more blatently bias reviews like this.  Why don’t we take a look at IGN?

 

http://psx.ign.com/articles/163/163238p1.html

 

lets look at their reasoning to give LOD a 7/10

 

5.5 Presentation
Aside from a few irksome bits of shop design, the interface is fine, but the translation is substandard in many ways, which does considerable harm to the story.

 

It got a severely sub-par rating in presentation. that is absurd. it got a pathetic score for what? Because the translation inst good? Are you shitting me? There were 2 or 3 translation errors in the whole game and the rest was beautifully translated and somehow it is substandard? Must I remind IGN all the awkward translations in FFVII?? Even if it was a big deal, is it worth knocking it down a bunch of stars?? Their reasoning is missing something. “REASONS.” The game is presented in an original, stunning majestic and regal manner.  It is straightforward and its well polished.  The world is believable, yet stylish. It is gritty, yet colorful. The story is well played out and everything has cohersion.  So allow me to correct you IGN.

 

It gets at least a 9/10 for presentation

 

 

9.0 Graphics
Lovely backgrounds, amazing CG, and some very impressive 3D bosses (the Divine Dragon is something else). Very high marks here.

 

I know to the average person this wouldn’t seem like a big deal, but lets stop for a second and think about this.  Legend of dragoon did not get a 10/10 graphically. Why not? Whats holding it back? It had, by far, the best graphics of any PS1 game.  That is a fact. Nothing surpassed it. It was the best looking game of its time and console. The fact that they fail to recognize it here, just shows that they are biased against it.

 

Graphics 10/10 (it deserves no less)

 

 

7.5 Sound
The dub rings rather harshly in my ears, but the soundtrack has some mellow, yet memorable songs.

 

What is he even talking about??? The dub? You mean the cutscenes? First of all, this was one of the first RPGs to have voices in cutscenes. It sounds great and the acting isn’t bad. How is that an issue? Second of all, even if the FMVs were torturous, there aren’t that many of them, so it wouldn’t be a constant issue. The music is astounding and it contrasts and melds with the environments in a unique and powerful way. Allow me to correct you again IGN

 

Sound, at least a 9/10

 

6.0 Gameplay
The Addition system demands too much precision combined with too much repetition, and the Dragoon transformations are pretty, but often superfluous. 5.0 Lasting Appeal
Getting around the world map is too tedious for much rose-smelling, and a replay is unlikely given the dull first disk and a half.

 

 

That is just a plain lie. There nothing opinionated about it.  The addition system is not that hard.  I was 8 years old when I first played LOD and even back then, the addition system was not hard at all.  So don’t sit there and fucking tell me that it is too hard for the average gamer. And to give it a sub-par rating for anything difficulty related is absurd in its own right.  the addition system was entertaining, and innovative.  Addressing it like a problem is stupefyingly moronic. How the fuck do you live with yourself IGN?  The gameplay involving additions, magic spells and dragoon attacks all involved some kind of skill and precision. It actually took you out of your comfort zone and kept the game invigorating. It was a hell of a lot less repetitive and boring than FFVII.

 

Gameplay, at least an 9/10

 

 

 

IGN is just plain wrong. That’s all there is to it.  They are completely wrong about this game. Their reasons are not valid (an example would be their complaint about the difficulty).  They nit pick at things that aren’t even issues and they simply make stuff up. Im sure you don’t know what im talking about because you didn’t play LOD but im serious, all the negative reviews are the same. Bias, illogical and inaccurate.  I have just scratched the surface of this problem.  The fact is, there is no valid reason to hate legend of dragoon. Everything about it is perfect. Someone may not care for the style but they have to admit it’s a great game.  But you see, people don’t want to admit it.  So they make reviews like these saying “uhhhh its too hard” or “uuhh the translation is bad.” Its pathetic. This is what FFVII created. Stuck up, pretentious, fanboys that lash out at games that try to compete with their beloved game.  Do you want more evidence that these reviewers are liars and fanboys, because I could look up more if you want.


You know, I dont really care about LOD, I was only talking about music and the fact that you assume your oppinion is better than others, whatever you wrote there besides the sound part I didnt read it.



Wow. Did I actually just scroll through multiple walls of text with someone trying to bring objectiveness into opinions?

Someone actually trying to factually disprove the merits of FF VII - and thereby branding a good big majority of the gaming community incompetent?

I mean, I get that some people really don't like FF VII or don't think it deserves all the praise it gets, but this is the worst I've ever seen. Why would anyone want to spend so much time being wrong?

 

Get this:

The only way to objectively determine the quality of a game is to judge by its popularity, i.e. it's sales.



du är min getsallad

blablablabla

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getsallad said:

Get this:

The only way to objectively determine the quality of a game is to judge by its popularity, i.e. it's sales.

Y-you're kidding, right?

So Wii Play is far better than Super Mario Galaxy?



Kimi wa ne tashika ni ano toki watashi no soba ni ita

Itsudatte itsudatte itsudatte

Sugu yoko de waratteita

Nakushitemo torimodosu kimi wo

I will never leave you

Naturally, that's a special case, since Wii Play was sold along with a Wii Remote, thus possibly generating more sales than it would've done if it were just sold stand-alone.

Otherwise, that would be the case objectively. Or at least, as close as you get to determining the difference in quality objectively. Surely you realize that, and are just jesting with me. I'm just explaining to other numbnuts who might take you seriously.



du är min getsallad

blablablabla

You can't objectively determine quality though.

You yourself are incorrect and insulting others just makes you look stupid.



Kimi wa ne tashika ni ano toki watashi no soba ni ita

Itsudatte itsudatte itsudatte

Sugu yoko de waratteita

Nakushitemo torimodosu kimi wo

I will never leave you

dtewi said:

You can't objectively determine quality though.

You yourself are incorrect and insulting others just makes you look stupid.

That's why I said "Or at least, as close as you get to determining the difference in quality objectively.".

It's a simple train of thought, really, here, I'll explain:

High quality would lead to many people wanting it, which in turn would lead to many people buying it. Very simple. I know full well that quality isn't quantifiable, and well, if you thought I didn't, you must have missed part of my post. That's why I reposted that relevant part.

And well, I didn't mean to insult anyone. If someone feels insulted, I don't really care either. I don't feel like apologizing, nor do I think that I've said anything worth taking back.



du är min getsallad

blablablabla

getsallad said:

Wow. Did I actually just scroll through multiple walls of text with someone trying to bring objectiveness into opinions?

Someone actually trying to factually disprove the merits of FF VII - and thereby branding a good big majority of the gaming community incompetent?

I mean, I get that some people really don't like FF VII or don't think it deserves all the praise it gets, but this is the worst I've ever seen. Why would anyone want to spend so much time being wrong?

 

Get this:

The only way to objectively determine the quality of a game is to judge by its popularity, i.e. it's sales.


I think you missed it in the last part, I think quality is determined in art in a way were there are objective measures in the execution and many aspects. And the different and subjective apreciations of these measures vary on each person, this is why quality may be called subjective in the end, I think its that, you can say a song is really really better composed and requires much more experience than another yet a person may prefer the more simple one because he doesnt apreciate the level of experience requiered to build a song.