I'm sorry, but game length is the weakest point to bring into an argument about data space. Back before many of you kids were (aparently) playing games there were ones that could last infinitely. No end. They just kept going on and on until the player lost.

Claiming that game length has a relationship to disc space is pretty foolish, let alone basing arguments on that premise alone.

 Ehm, you forget that if N64 would have had DVD Final Fantasy 7 would have been on that platform, which happens to be the game that skyrocketed the PS. So it had an impact.

Over 9000 on the condescending-tone scale!!

 But seriously, you're just backing up the original point that you seem to be trying to discredit.  If games could go on forever before us 'kids' were gaming, why are they getting so much shorter?

(Makes bow) On your first playtrough? Amazing. I've played all Zelda games as well and they are by far my favorite games, but EVERYTHING in 40 hours is really fast. I must admit that I never have a complete game cause I'm too lazy to dig everywhere and perform boring actions like that(in fact TP was the first Zelda game ever that made me miss a compass, in the Goron mines).

But I love just to crawl around Hyrule (and Hyrule in TP was amazing). The familiar puzzle structures help of course, but the wolf part was really great invention with really cool gameplay.

More ontopic: It's said a lot of times before but why do PS fans all of a sudden have the need to disqualify all previous gens with their arguments. Like FF7 all of a sudden is a bad game cause it came on 3 discs. Or Tales of Symphonia. Skies of Arcadia came on one GC disc. DQ8 was a great game. Game lenght and disc size have nothing to do with each other. A good developer creates what it think is nescessary to have a great game. Whether that's short or epic doesn't matter. Beyond Good & Evil was an amazing game, but not very long. Blu-Ray or HDDVD has nothing to do with that. In fact when PS3 would have come up with a normal disc format they wouldn't have been in all these troubles. Blue Dragon, Mass Effect, BioShock, Eternal Sonata, all HD games that were released on DVD. Are these games short and bad?  Developers aren't making their games longer because they have BR at their disposal. They make the game they want and fit it on 1 disc multiple times or less compressed instead of compressing it to 1 disc.

@Kamahl:  Actually, the Wii has the shortest games of the generation so far

Eh no, Zelda TP (40 hrs), Fire Emblem (50 hrs),  Metroid 3 (25 hrs), all longer than all PS3 games currently out.

Somehow when GTA4 was announced and shown all the PS3 fanboys said that it would never run on the xbox.....um oops? Not only does it run, it also runs on one disc? Damn i wonder how they did that? Oh wait...compression. Really, dev get more space and suddenly they get sloppy with managing space.

Best example i can think of is comparing Resistance to Gears of war. Similar game length, music and Gears giving Resistance a beating in terms of graphics. And look, gears fitted on one dvd9 disc, while Resistance is slated that it could not have done the same thing? Propaganda, propaganda..

"""Not only does it run, it also runs on one disc? Damn i wonder how they did that? Oh wait...compression. Really, dev get more space and suddenly they get sloppy with managing space."""

==> GTA4, not released yet, run on 1 disc ?
any link confirming this ?
you should save this comment for the future.

""""Best example i can think of is comparing Resistance to Gears of war. Similar game length, music and Gears giving Resistance a beating in terms of graphics. And look, gears fitted on one dvd9 disc, while Resistance is slated that it could not have done the same thing? Propaganda, propaganda.."""

==> Resistance is stated to have large environnement, lot of enemies, big online multiplayer, all seem completely opposed to Gears of War.
you should not compare these 2 games ...

***** 
About the thread,

- BR was bad for the PS3 : increased the price 
- BR is good for the PS3 : it is what sell the console in NA.
I think, without BR, the console would sell less than what it is selling now !

- PS3+BR is HUGE for Sony.
It was their best way to introduce the BR..
Without the PS3, the BR will be dead now and the format war over.

That is not the premise of my argument at all.  Even excepting the highly subjective argument that the PS3 is the best player on the market, my argument holds for two reasons.

1. It is inevitable that a better, cheaper player will be out long before PS3 reaches mass market adoption prices.

2. The PS3 is still a games machine, and is seen as such by the vast majority of consumers. 

Many people have indicated that I have attacked the merit of Blu-Ray as a format, but this is not the case.  What is the case is that I have used perfectly legitimate arguments to highlight why Blu-Ray isn't good for the PLAYSTATION THREE.

Someone here said that there are just a few people who have been swayed by the Blu-Ray's prescence to purchase a PS3, and that this is a good thing.  But how many people do you think have been swayed against a PS3 purchase by the extra money and offense at having unneccessary technology trojan-horsed into the console.  I am one of them I can tell you that.

Can I ask how many of the PS3 fanboys out there actually thought to themselves "gee, I hope the next PS has more disck capacity" PRIOR to Sony coming out and saying it was neccessary.  And now that they have said that exactly what evidence have they given that convinces you???

Blu-Ray has no more significance for the PS3 in the NA region than in any other

starcraft said:

In any event, it will be 10-15 years before Blu-Ray drives are as cheap to produce as DVD drives, even if Blu-Ray were to win.

Well I don't think so, history has taught us that when stuff get mass produced the prices go down.

Look at DVD players or HDTVs, eight years ago these products were at least five times more expensive than they are now.

I firmly believe that the prices of Blu-Ray players will come down quickly, in five years we'll see them at a 150$- 200$ range. Why? because the cost of the infrastucture needed to mass produce the players will already have been made in revenues, and competition between electronic companies will be strong. Just my opinion...