To put this utter fail to rest:

EVERY console FPS game has auto-aim. EVERY. FUCKING. ONE. You know why? To make up for the shit that the analog sticks are for control. PC games haven't had online auto-aim since the days of DOOM 2, and that was just so you can shoot vertically, still had to aim horizonally for yourself.

I rest my case, vicotriously.

P.S. Does UT3 really allow for cross platform gaming? It might be worth re-installing just to fuck with the poor analog users if it is.

Well, I don't find sitting in my computer chair any more or less confortable then sitting on my couch in front of the TV.  In fact, I used to have my computer connected to my LED TV and ended up moving it back to my monitor.

Replacing the KBM with a nunchuck would severily liimit functionality.  One of the major benefits of the KBM is the number of buttons you have.  In L4D2, if I need to pull out my pipe bomb in an action packed survival match, the easiest way is to hit the '3' button.  Pressing the up or down weapon change buttons on a controller is akward, and changes behavior depending on how many weapons/items you have.

Doesn't fit your hand well? Maybe you should get a better keyboard and mouse.  My mouse molds to my hand and my other hand rests on the keyboard at a very confortable angle.  Yes, a joystick does fit your hand better, but it is like fixing a problem that doesn't exist.

People seem obsessed with digital movement when it comes to forward/backwards/strafing movement.  I don't see the problem with analog.  I see pressing a button much faster than moving a joystick, and never have a problem with sensitivity.  If I want to move slowly, I am usually crouching to take advantage of increased accuracy (as most games feature this).

I do play some shooting games on the console.  They are usefull when I have people over at my house and we want to play local multiplayer.

He's saying console shooters take no skill because they take no skill. Sorry but that video was a joke.

Here ya go, meet Vo0.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3982254532401769894&ei=TfooS8bTAZWcqgKM6MCLCA&q=vo0&hl=en#

Now I know it's going to be a little fast for you, so I'll explain some stuff since you'll never see it on a console:

Rocket jumping: aim at the floor or a wall and shoot a rocket as you jump, thus propelling you to grand heights. You'll kill yourself about 1000 times before you learn to do this effectively.

Strafe jumping: awh hell I'll let wikipedia do this one

The movements are usually as follows: 

1. The player presses the forward key, preparing to make the first jump.
2. Still keeping the forward key pressed, the player jumps, adding either the move left or the move right key (which is where the strafe in strafe-jumping comes from). The strafe and jump keys must be pressed at the same time.
3. To gain maximum speed, the player must now move the mouse smoothly to around a 45 degree (i.e., turn) in the direction of the strafe, while still holding down the two aforementioned keys. This part is called airstrafing, which is responsible for increase in speed during the jump.
4. For successive strafejumps, the player immediately jumps again on landing, swapping the direction of strafe as well as mouse motion

Done correctly, this will dramatically increase the player's velocity with successive jumps. The only way to learn this technique is by practice. Sequential strafejumping is mainly a matter of muscle memory, as the maximum angle of mouse motion increases slightly with consecutive jumps. Another way to increase jump speed in Quake III is a circle-jump where the player gets over 500 units/sec (standard runspeed is 320 units/sec).

(by the way he's doing that the entire video)

Plasma ladder: you won't see it in the vid, but it's pretty damn hard to do and I've seen it in matches

Now, Vo0 is doing all of those things while shooting better than anyone on a console ever will. There's no "skill ceiling" where everyone is essentially the same on Quake 3 or Counter Strike, the skill ceiling on console games is pretty damn low.  But then again if there were any pro gamers in consoles besides the fighting game guys we wouldn't have to deal with stupid questions about how OMG WAY LEET a gamepad is. At least in the Q3/CS/UT days contards knew their place.  I don't even know how someone gets all omgl33tsauce playing a new FPS game every week.

And I'll add some more dirt, strafe jumping and all of those other wonderful things back in the late 90s were HUGE, seen as something the "hardcore only" do or can do. It's one of a billion tricks in shooters like Counter Strike and Q3 and UT used to do but don't anymore because as FPS became popular and made casual with the Halo crowd, people complained a LOT and made those things a thing of the past.

Halo will never have a cool trick video like "skillout" because the days of REAL competitive and REAL hardcore gaming died with Q3 and Counter Strike and UT 2004.

Face it, console FPSers, you guys are our Wii, and yes, much like you replaced us with your baby shooters, the Wii will replace you.

Ad yes, your stupid controller is as much to blame as those crybabies who, rather than getting owned a few months (yes months, not minutes/hours) before getting good and learning, complained until they got their way.

I agree on the buttons, but that's JaggedSAC's arguement really - that's a design choice for that game.  In general you could say a limiting design factor of all console pads is there is a limit to the number of functions you can support, which can be both a pro and a con depending on the game.  But this discussion I think is just about basic movement and aiming, therefore I don't think it's fair to consider buttons for other stuff at the same time.

I mean, I probably lean to K&M as a preference playing more FPS on PC than console, but I feel from my gamepad use that it works well enough in that environment and when the game is designed for it the results are more or less the same in terms of having a fun game you can enjoy.

This is a one time reply because I'm too busy to get into an argument with someone who is clearly a child, does it make you feel good to say contards? Are you supposed to impress me by telling me about those glitches? You do realize that Halo has just as many intricate details that an average gamer like you could never see. Here I'll give you a list just so we can compare our e-penis size since you seem to like doing that.

backpak reloading, double melee, crouch landing, bxr (instant kill move if pulled off correctly), double shot (shooting two instant shots from br that can be stringed into a double combo for a two shot kill), bxb, crouch melee (the technique of ducking below opponents melee at last second and countering), grenade reload, grenade jumping, spawn manipulation/spawn blocking, jump melee, grenade blast bouncing, ghost jumping, slant acceleration.

Thats just the tip of the iceberg and are pulled off by pro's constantly in games. I'm willing to bet money that you could not pull off a quad shot or even a double shot in the middle of a game so don't start listing me glitches.

The MLG pro's are "contard" pro's as you call them that make tens of thousands of dollars playing console fps. Some like Walshy and T2 make millions of dollars playing one game. Name me one fps PC tournament today that has events every month with a top prize of $20,000 and with a national championship prize of $100,000? Thats not including the contract fees they get from MLG for signing on as a pro player. So if console fps are so easy why don't your leet friends show up and wipe all the console noobs away and make themselves some free money? Hell why don't you show up with your elite PC skills and show them all how much of a noob they are and make yourself a couple thousand dollars in the process?

The fact is that console fps were designed to play one way and PC fps another way and both take skill in their respective field. This isn't about putting the kb+M head to head with the DA, its about realizing that both input devices take skill to master. Although I think you may be a little too daft to understand that.

At whoever challenged me on my race car analogy. The point I was making was that some sports do make it harder for their athletes to compete because if they make it too easy they reduce the skill gap. This is especially true of sports that requires its participants to use a man made machine like a car, boat, plane or controller.

Consoles are popular, no doubt... but the competitive scene on PC is definitely much larger.  Hell, on most console games, you can't have a competitive scene (outside of LANs at controlled events) because there are no dedicated servers or competition mods. 

Now, it still takes skill to play games on a console, nobody's arguing that, but the games are slowed down, and have auto-aim, to make up for the controls.  There really should be no discussion here, KBM > Dual Analog

I wouldn't get into a argument with Mendicate about the competitive console scene, he knows his shit.  And as explained in his post, there is quite the professional scene for console games.  As for competition mods, MLG created Halo 2/3 game types/settings/map variants.  Bungie even created a playlist that uses only MLG game types and map variants.

This is a one time reply because I'm too busy to get into an argument with someone who is clearly a child, does it make you feel good to say contards? Are you supposed to impress me by telling me about those glitches? You do realize that Halo has just as many intricate details that an average gamer like you could never see. Here I'll give you a list just so we can compare our e-penis size since you seem to like doing that.

backpak reloading, double melee, crouch landing, bxr (instant kill move if pulled off correctly), double shot (shooting two instant shots from br that can be stringed into a double combo for a two shot kill), bxb, crouch melee (the technique of ducking below opponents melee at last second and countering), grenade reload, grenade jumping, spawn manipulation/spawn blocking, jump melee, grenade blast bouncing, ghost jumping, slant acceleration.

Thats just the tip of the iceberg and are pulled off by pro's constantly in games. I'm willing to bet money that you could not pull off a quad shot or even a double shot in the middle of a game so don't start listing me glitches.

The MLG pro's are "contard" pro's as you call them that make tens of thousands of dollars playing console fps. Some like Walshy and T2 make millions of dollars playing one game. Name me one fps PC tournament today that has events every month with a top prize of $20,000 and with a national championship prize of $100,000? Thats not including the contract fees they get from MLG for signing on as a pro player. So if console fps are so easy why don't your leet friends show up and wipe all the console noobs away and make themselves some free money? Hell why don't you show up with your elite PC skills and show them all how much of a noob they are and make yourself a couple thousand dollars in the process?

The fact is that console fps were designed to play one way and PC fps another way and both take skill in their respective field. This isn't about putting the kb+M head to head with the DA, its about realizing that both input devices take skill to master. Although I think you may be a little too daft to understand that.

At whoever challenged me on my race car analogy. The point I was making was that some sports do make it harder for their athletes to compete because if they make it too easy they reduce the skill gap. This is especially true of sports that requires its participants to use a man made machine like a car, boat, plane or controller.