I know they're two different games. It doesn't change the fact that the console one is still very slow in comparison.

It's a stupid argument made by stupid people, and you should treat them as such by just pointing and laughing. The more they speak, the louder you laugh.

Excellent posts Mendicate. I agree completely. Especially the racing analogy. Good to know at least somebody else gets it.

The "hardcore X-box phreak" is just jealous that he got used to the inferior input. On the other hand, he doesn't have to feel bad about it. If he is skilled, he should be able to get used to KB+M anyways.

Here is my argument. It is somewhat similar to yours. Turn speed is slower with DA, even if you ajust sensitivity, the controls will always have slower turn speed than KB+M and be more sturdy.

With KB+M you can adjust sensitivity so that you can turn very fact, but in turn, with high sensitivity you have to be more skilled to keep your aim steady. This means higher skill required gives higher reward since you have to have good reaction time and a steady aim.

With DA, this is no problem, you have automatically a steady aim wich removes skill factor but makes it easier to play. It also makes the game more about placement wich can make it more cerebral and good for slower players. DA is therefore a good choice for casual friendly FPS playing, while KB+M is better for fact-paced adrenalin filled competitive or semi-competitive games, (in this case I define competitive as players wanting their skill measured).

Would your friend listen to this argument? It seams like someone that agues "More precise input=H4xx0rz" wouln't take the time to listen to a well thought out argument.

I don't agree with Vlad on many things, except for this.  It is true that when everyone is playing using the same controls, it really doesn't matter since everyone is on a level playing field.  However, every time I am forced to play a game on a joystick, I think that it just be better on mouse + keyboard.  This is why:

Joysticks are based on an velocity type system.  In other words, the further you push the stick, the faster the screen moves.  To make a precise move, you have to accelerate the joystick until you have achieved sufficient velocity to reach the position in time (before you get shot) and then you have to release the joystick at just the right time to aim where you want to.  That is a lot to deal with in a heavy fire-fight.  How fast should you turn?  If you turn to fast, you won't aim where you want to.  If you aim too slow, you will get shot too much before your crosshairs meet the enemy.

Mouse and Keyboard is based on a positional type system.  You move the mouse, which corresponds directly to movement on the screen.  Simple, and more efficient use of your braincells.

Does simpler and easier mean more noobish? no.  It just means that you can get to intermediate and expert level faster using the mouse and keyboard. Can you think of any sport where a player makes it harder for himself just because it takes more skill to play that way?  No, you don't.  With the keyboard and mouse, I spend less time thinking about my turning and more time about position, cover, etc.

I think many people who claim the joystick is better are just console guys who either can't afford a gaming PC or don't want to work on them.  I won't fault them for that, but stop whining because of your choice.  Enjoy their other features like ease of use and....ease of use. 

@Mendicate

Your racing car analogy would work if you meant that DA was with ABS and KB+M was without. DA is making sturdiness easier, wich means lower risk and lower reward (look at my first post)

KB+M removes the automatic sturdiness and adds a much better response and turn rate (IF YOU ARE SKILLED)

I find your racing car analogy very spot-on, just not the way you intended it to.

Mendicate and I are not saying DA is better.  We are just saying they are different.  The comparison really doesn't matter at all.  Both Mendicate and I play PC FPS games and console FPS games, and enjoy both.  I grew up playing PC fps games.  I really don't see what the concern over this is about.

^We know that they are different, and one is also superior.

You are correct.  One is superior for sitting at a desk and playing.  And one is superior for lounging on a couch and playing on the tv.  They both offer different gameplay and experiences.

I remember back when I was a computer tech at a computer store, the PC guys were just the most arrogant people in the entire world. It seemed to leak over into every part of life, whose music was better, whose car was better, just arrogance "You're wrong, and you're so wrong you're stupid, only I can be right!" is the cry of the PC guy. I'm not sure what it is about being a PC lover. Of course if we went to the bar and there were females around, the arrogance was gone, replaced by a deer in the headlights look. Well, flame on PC gamers, I'm going to enjoy some games!