Game_boy said: Opera tends to have compliance as a badge, i.e. they have the minimum possible in each area to put it on their marketing, while Firefox tends to be compliant 100% in common areas and have little support for generally unused parts of the standard. Neither is perfect, of course, and full inline SVG in Firefox is desirable. Iceweasel >>>>>>> Firefox>Opera>Safari>Konqueror>IE7>>>>IE6 is my opinion.

I know Opera wears their compliance as a badge but in my experience, it's a pretty hollow statement. I have written some pretty basic code before only to see Opera bugger it all to hell.

rocketpig said: Words Of Wisdom said: Good information. You're missing Most Correct View though. It would be: FF >> IE7 > Safari=Opera >>>>>>>> IE6. Most mediocre websites are coded specifically for FF/IE7. Most good websites validate xhtml transitional at least making them capatible across the board. Safari is decent on Windows, but if you're on Windows, you shouldn't be using Safari... there are better alternatives. I was speaking from a design standpoint... any designer will ensure that their work displays correctly in IE but there are the occasional screwups, especially on large sites. But, hands-down, IE6 is the worst browser for correctly displaying code. IE7 is marginally better but has its own hangups. On nearly a daily basis, I want to kick the entire IE team in the nuts for refusing to conform to W3C standards. It's complete crap and it ends up costing me and my clients valuable time and money because MS wants to do things their own way. Oh, and if you stick to standardized coding, Safari displays things correctly more often than Opera. Opera has its fair share of screw-ups while Safari is slightly better. Neither one is that great, though. FF is definitely the best.

I hear you.  Fire Fox is very forgiving from a designer stand-point whereas IE7 is not.  A page can look marvelous in FF, but be completely blown apart in IE7 thanks to its many quirks like its unwanted, unasked-for, inexplicable desire padding to things that don't need it.

Safari and Opera are within striking distance of one another though.  The differences are marginal IMO.

Firefox is definitely the best out of the lot though and being available for every platform not withstanding specialty hardware (Mobile/Console...etc) leaves very  little excuse for people to not choose it.

thanny said: .... and i have tried telling him its safer against viruses (he says we dont need that because we already have norton)

Must...resist....urge...to....laugh uncontrollably...

 

Words Of Wisdom said: I hear you.  Fire Fox is very forgiving from a designer stand-point whereas IE7 is not.  A page can look marvelous in FF, but be completely blown apart in IE7 thanks to its many quirks like its unwanted, unasked-for, inexplicable desire padding to things that don't need it. Safari and Opera are within striking distance of one another though.  The differences are marginal IMO. Firefox is definitely the best out of the lot though and being available for every platform not withstanding specialty hardware (Mobile/Console...etc) leaves very  little excuse for people to not choose it.

Don't get me started on IE's CSS multiple div-within-div quirkiness... It's almost reduced me to tears on more than one occasion. The self-padding thing never gets old, either. Love it. Just love it.

Few things drive designers to drink more than coding for six hours straight, popping the code into FF and seeing it display correctly and then popping it into IE and watching the entire design blow itself to shit. One job ended up costing me nearly a grand because IE absolutely refused to cooperate with my CSS. I ended up having to bit the bullet and re-create an entirely separate CSS file (which shared very little with the original) just for IE6. Then I had to tweak that for IE7 and create another CSS file. I was furious.

You want to convince him? Ask him to let you install it for your own use, leaving IE as the default browser. Then use it regularly in front of him. He'll see you using stuff that IE doesn't do, and eventually will start to use it himself.  And if he doesn't, it doesn't matter.

I showed my dad how I can open news.google.com, use all in one gestures to open each news article I'm interested in reading in a background tab, and then click on the first one and start reading. Click close, second one is automatically brought forward. and so on. I showed him how all my favorites can be put into a bookmark folder and I can open all of my favorites at once.

After he saw that, he decided to start using firefox again. He had tried it before (when it was less stable) and wasn't happy with it. But now he's a firefox convert and regularly worships at the feet of the great mozilla.

rocketpig said: Don't get me started on IE's CSS multiple div-within-div quirkiness... It's almost reduced me to tears on more than one occasion. The self-padding thing never gets old, either. Love it. Just love it. Few things drive designers to drink more than coding for six hours straight, popping the code into FF and seeing it display correctly and then popping it into IE and watching the entire design blow itself to shit. One job ended up costing me nearly a grand because IE absolutely refused to cooperate with my CSS. I ended up having to bit the bullet and re-create an entirely separate CSS file (which shared very little with the original) just for IE6. Then I had to tweak that for IE7 and create another CSS file. I was furious.

And of course, while they're drinking they begin doing strange things to their code like flattening it all to the left, double spacing with a blank line in between everything, removing all comments, and putting in strange things like <div style="display: block;" ...

And you know your day just got worse when one of the first lines in the file is '<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word ...'

Anyway, we're derailing this poor thread.  We should probably stop doing that. ^_^