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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Iwata: Wii isn't in a healthy situation we need to recover momentum

He didn't say how he would fix it from this quote... so there's nothing much to talk about. I think we all knew there was nothing from Nintendo this year, Wii Music was nice, I enjoyed it, but lack of online multiplayer and being able to rock out with friends around the world has it now in my storage.



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Mr Khan said:
trestres said:
 

Nintendo is actually losing the most important part of their fanbase, the core gamers. They are moving elsewhere and most have no interest in returning to the Wii, when the other consoles offer a lot more and a lot better. They are gaining new customers, that's true, but they are the ones that bought the Wii like an impulse buy and barely end up buying games other than the usual Wii___ stuff or a music game. That's why we don't see core games succeed on the Wii. There's simply too much coming out for the other consoles and after 3 years of waiting, most of the core gamers got tired and moved on. That's what's going on. I would even say that the core Nintendo fan is in risk of being lost by Nintendo themselves due to the lack of games as well.

And about the 43 million selling games, note that most of what you can call "core" in that list was released in the first years of the Wii, when people actually cared for the core experiences on it. There has been no big success this year outside of music games and fitness games, or MHTri, which is only big in Japan. And not all of the games in there are quality games, far from it.

I would dispute pretty much all of that. Core games have succeeded, the amount of core gamers lost is highly disputable (especially the loyalty of the gamers lost). Who is "most" of the "core" gamers? How do we know that the Wii Fit crowd isn't buying software? where are your statistics?

 

Please, enlighten me.

 

      Yeah, we know that the Wii Fit crowd is buying some pretty poor games on Wii like Deca Sports ( a million seller on Wii with a metacritic score of 50) and maybe Carnival Games (a million seller on Wii with a Metacritic score in the 50's) and Game Party (a million seller on Wii with a Metacritic score in the 20's), but as far as encouraging developers to put more top rated core games on the system like Dead Space:  Extraction (Metacritic score of 83 not a million seller on Wii), or No More Heroes (Metacritic score of 83 not a million seller on Wii), or Okami (Metacritic score of 90 and not a million seller), they're not doing much at all.

 

     If publishers can sell more crap on a system than they can something they've actually had to put some work into, then they're not going to have any incentive to actually put something good on a system.

 

 



@Kenryoku_Maxis: So you are counting 7 GC ports and a plethora of Japan only games to justify that Wii has seen more games in the same timeframe than the GC did?

I'm sorry but I, and many others, bought the Wii to play new games. The GC ports and the games that I will never be able to play shouldn't go in that comparison.



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trestres said:
Also asking me for convincing proof is kind of illogical, since you can't prove the opposite to me. Although I am trying.

Now please explain to me why are core gamers not buying core stuff on the Wii but they do on the other consoles? Why can Uncharted 2 sell 100k in Japan and a really popular franchise like Super Robot Taisen bombs on its first week?

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@Kenryoku_Maxis: Uncharted 2 wasn't advertised as much as SRT was I think. I've seen commercials for SRT since September. Advertisement has done nothing, because people have no interest in those games anymore. The userbase has already migrated to consoles where games are good, come out very often and there's a lot of variety to choose from.

Nintendo lacks all of this, so advertising a game that comes out after a 3 month drought will make no difference, as the majority of gamers would have been waiting for it eagerly after 3 months of nothing. The Wii has become a niche machine. It has a very limited core userbase in comparison to the other consoles and has a very big casual/mainstream audience who are not interested in games in the core genres.

Could have it been a different story? Yeah, but Nintendo should have worked with 3rd parties at the beginning of the gen and helped them. The Wii had a new intreface and not everyon was willing to support it, plus the PS3 was the PS2's successor, so a lot of investments was already poured onto it. Nintendo have only themselves to blame, just like Iwata said.



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trestres said:
@Kenryoku_Maxis: Uncharted 2 wasn't advertised as much as SRT was I think. I've seen commercials for SRT since September. Advertisement has done nothing, because people have no interest in those games anymore. The userbase has already migrated to consoles where games are good, come out very often and there's a lot of variety to choose from.

Nintendo lacks all of this, so advertising a game that comes out after a 3 month drought will make no difference, as the majority of gamers would have been waiting for it eagerly after 3 months of nothing. The Wii has become a niche machine. It has a very limited core userbase in comparison to the other consoles and has a very big casual/mainstream audience who are not interested in games in the core genres.

Could have it been a different story? Yeah, but Nintendo should have worked with 3rd parties at the beginning of the gen and helped them. The Wii had a new intreface and not everyon was willing to support it, plus the PS3 was the PS2's successor, so a lot of investments was already poured onto it. Nintendo have only themselves to blame, just like Iwata said.

Or like I said, Wii is fighting the DS for usershare.  There are already 4 Super Robot Taisen games on DS.

But I can definitely say the advertising for Wii games is working.  Nearly all the Million sellers for Wii titles were the games that actually saw marketing, from We Ski to Sonic Unleashed to the 'party' games everyone hates.  Eventhough people may hate the party games, the difference is they got marketing while the other better games didn't.  If Third Parties had put forth the effort, their games would have sold better.



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That's the point, the main focus of Nintendo with the Wii are the new gamers/the mainstream. They don't believe that advertising a game for the core is necessary because they think they will sell for themselves. WRONG. Most of their core releases have bombed in Japan, bombed terribly. They all have in common the lack of advertisement and media previous to release.

Third parties followed suit. They saw that games like Wii Fit, Wii Sports, Mario Kart, Guitar Hero, etc were successful, and now that's what they are aiming for. Core games are a rare happening that will almost definitely never end up better on the Wii than they would have on other console.
Third parties don't advertise their core games, because they know they aren't top quality and they know that Nintendo themselves don't care to advertise core games either.

Retailers have already showed signs that they are unwilling to stock core Wii games. Excitebots, Punch Out, Muramasa, Little King's Story, Disaster: DoC are all examples. The core market is already a niche market on the Wii.



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Kenryoku_Maxis said:
trestres said:
@Kenryoku_Maxis: Uncharted 2 wasn't advertised as much as SRT was I think. I've seen commercials for SRT since September. Advertisement has done nothing, because people have no interest in those games anymore. The userbase has already migrated to consoles where games are good, come out very often and there's a lot of variety to choose from.

Nintendo lacks all of this, so advertising a game that comes out after a 3 month drought will make no difference, as the majority of gamers would have been waiting for it eagerly after 3 months of nothing. The Wii has become a niche machine. It has a very limited core userbase in comparison to the other consoles and has a very big casual/mainstream audience who are not interested in games in the core genres.

Could have it been a different story? Yeah, but Nintendo should have worked with 3rd parties at the beginning of the gen and helped them. The Wii had a new intreface and not everyon was willing to support it, plus the PS3 was the PS2's successor, so a lot of investments was already poured onto it. Nintendo have only themselves to blame, just like Iwata said.

Or like I said, Wii is fighting the DS for usershare.  There are already 4 Super Robot Taisen games on DS.

But I can definitely say the advertising for Wii games is working.  Nearly all the Million sellers for Wii titles were the games that actually saw marketing, from We Ski to Sonic Unleashed to the 'party' games everyone hates.  Eventhough people may hate the party games, the difference is they got marketing while the other better games didn't.  If Third Parties had put forth the effort, their games would have sold better.

At least Tales of Graces, Crystal Bearers, and Samurai Warriors 3 are getting some advertising; the former title and the latter, in particular, have bundled releases.  Those two should be able to bring in more of an audience to the Wii.  As for Crystal Bearers, it's difficult to predict.  It's clearly more in line with a Western audience than a Japanese one, but I expect it'll be a modestly successful title to crack in at around 350K, which wouldn't be bad at all.



trestres said:
@Mr Khan: My statistcs are NPD, the usual MC/Famitsu and the PAL charts. The games that appear on those lists are basically always the same games, meaning that they are obviously selling to new owners. New releases barely chart. Look at Japan, Look at the PAL charts, look at NPD. Why doesn't any game that is not from Nintendo themselves (aimed at the casual/bridge) or a casual IP from third parties chart?

It's because the core gamer is not interested in what's coming out for the Wii anymore. The new gamers barely buy products from new IP's, they keep on buying the same games on the same genres, and they do it every once in a while. We are the vast minority here in this forum. Look at Japan for example, no one is buying anything there save for the Wii___ games or the Nintendo franchises. Those really inflate the attach rate and are mostly what people got when they bought the Wii.

Also asking me for convincing proof is kind of illogical, since you can't prove the opposite to me. Although I am trying.

Now please explain to me why are core gamers not buying core stuff on the Wii but they do on the other consoles? Why can Uncharted 2 sell 100k in Japan and a really popular franchise like Super Robot Taisen bombs on its first week?

So because the sales aren't front-loaded, that means core gamers aren't there? There is some merit there, i suppose. Core gamers are the ones who buy into the hype machine and buy games early, and that doesn't happen on Wii, except for the really big stuff, but we're at a "chicken-or-the-egg" question on that, given that the core might not be buying into these core games because there's no hype, not that there's no hype because nobody's buying the games.



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trestres said:
That's the point, the main focus of Nintendo with the Wii are the new gamers/the mainstream. They don't believe that advertising a game for the core is necessary because they think they will sell for themselves. WRONG. Most of their core releases have bombed in Japan, bombed terribly. They all have in common the lack of advertisement and media previous to release.

Third parties followed suit. They saw that games like Wii Fit, Wii Sports, Mario Kart, Guitar Hero, etc were successful, and now that's what they are aiming for. Core games are a rare happening that will almost definitely never end up better on the Wii than they would have on other console.
Third parties don't advertise their core games, because they know they aren't top quality and they know that Nintendo themselves don't care to advertise core games either.

Retailers have already showed signs that they are unwilling to stock core Wii games. Excitebots, Punch Out, Muramasa, Little King's Story, Disaster: DoC are all examples. The core market is already a niche market on the Wii.

Nintendo doesn't believe in dropping the core market.  And they definitely still believe in advertising.  This has been a big misconception since they said they're moving into new markets, but they're still making plenty of 'core' games themselves.  If anything, it was people on the internet and third parties who developed this image for Nintendo that they were dropping the 'core' gamer and alienated them.

I totally agree that since Third Parties had this mentality and started throwing a bunch of shovelware on the system, the Wii has gotten a negative image of being a 'casual' system.  But its not Nintendo who developed that image.  They were trying to branch out to obtain the 'younger' and 'older' demographic but still had their eyes on the making the same core games they always did (Metroid, Zelda, Mario, etc) and came through with them in their FIRST YEAR.  With even bigger titles coming the following year like Mario Galaxy, Brawl, Fire Emblem, etc.

Pretty much it all comes back to the third parties dropping the ball and alienating themselves from the Wii from the beginning.  if its Nintendos fault for not subsidizing their development costs and doing 'everything they could' to get them to work on their system, then perhaps its better that they didn't.  It backfired for them on the GC and caused us to have less good games on the system as a whole.  Maybe on the next system third parties will actually give Nintendo a try this time.



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