"Except these aren't "rip-offs", both MS and Sony's devices OUT DO what the Wiimote does even with the WM+. Ripoffs imply a lesser clone. Like Simpsons Road Rage vs GTA."

I wrote "copycat" about those devices. The Zune outclasses the iPod in many ways. It's a copycat.

And you don't have much ground for how they supposedly out do a system when they are almost no games to show them off (save for PS3 games that are just a pointer with the Dual Shock 3 replacing the nun-chuck, which is equaling, not outdoing).

This.

Reversing that trend and regaining momentum is very very difficult, Iwata has acknowledged that. We won't see what Nintendo plan to do until early next year. It's possible they'll have a massive fourth quarter in all territories that rebuilds Wii momentum. With plenty of stock through the Christmas period and after it, with a lower price point and NSMBWii, I think now is the best time for Nintendo to regain their momentum. If that happens, then we'll see how Nintendo hope to continue that momentum. If not, then they'll have to find another way to regain momentum.

Lame argument.  The specs of the hardware are there.   The tracking accuracy, response time, the greater capacity for 3 dimensional tracking...

It's like saying we wouldn't know if a cold fusion reactor would be better than fission because we don't have one yet.

Try linking, and try understading not everyone knows if such things are available instead of insulting them for now knowing.

And you ignoring the part about how the Zune does the same to the iPod makes your counter even more lame, since you are selectively arguing.

well, we've aways got 2010 amirite?

Is it my fault if you don't see the whole picture here, and use your very own "crappy logic" in most of your posts?

In some ways, Wii's hardware was already too limited back in 2006, so now in 2009, and later in 2010-11, the situation will not miraculously change, and the 3rd parties devs won't suddenly say to themselves "let's port all our games on Wii": because technically, it's too difficult, and economically, it's not that profitable...

A "real" market leader needs most of the best games released, otherwise, it's a leader in its own niche, in its own league, and that's it... and even if i don't care for most of the GTA and CoD in this world, yes, i think all consoles and all games are in a kind of competition, because the people's budget is limited, and the gamers budget is of course limited just as well... so only the best and the most original will survive...

Sure, Wii and DS are doin' good... but if Sony's and Microsoft's "copycats" meet a lot of success (too), Nintendo really needs to think about what's next, really fast, and do something really special... otherwise, their success may disappear in three years, just like the Playstation's success disappeared in three years: you see?

So Nintendo needs to think about some more innovations, but also about a (way) more powerful hardware, to please all the kinds of devs, and all the kinds of gamers... that's all i wanted to say, and no, this isn't "flawed logic"...  :(

It is. You're still operating under the assumption that the GTA/CoD/Halo gamer is still the center of the market, and are operating with the old falsehood that it is Nintendo who has carved a niche out for themselves with the Wii, implying that the sum of the non-Nintendo industry is bigger than Nintendo, which is barely the case (48% marketshare, after all)

It is now clear that the industry no longer revolves around companies like Rockstar. That message was very clearly sent when Mario Kart Wii outsold GTAIV, despite claims that GTAIV would bury the Wii itself, let alone MKWii. They are not the center of the industry, so their support is no longer essential to the market leader. Certainly it would be nice, and help the market leader to monopolize, but clearly they are no longer necessary as a determining factor.

       Nintendo can't convince third parties to make kick -ass games on the Wii because they view it as old tech particularly in the West.  The biggest third party game coming out this year is MW2 and it will influence the direction that next year's big third party games go.  With Western third parties, the 360 is very much the console of choice, then PS3.  And in Japan the Wii might be seen as number one, but not really because most of the big third party Japanese titles haven't done any better on Wii than similar titles on PS3.

I would say that being number 2 amongst third parties in the West and being seen as just as viable as the Wii for third party games in Japan gives the PS3 an overall edge over the Wii with third parties.

Nintendo created a tough spot for themselves with third parties this gen because most third parties don't want to work with the tech limitations of the Wii when they can have just as good or better sales of most of their games on 360 and PS3 while having more fun seeing what the tech of those machines is capable of.

I think most third parties think of working on the Wii as about like working on PSP or PS2 and that explains why many games like Silent Hill:  Shattered Memories appear on those three consoles.

Did you really just fault me for not doing YOUR research before making uninformed statements?

Secondly, I ignored the Zune/iPod part because it's completely irrelevant.  Releasing a competitor product =/= copycat.  Otherwise for every generation of consoles every other company that produces a console is copying whoever released theirs first.

Personally, i don't care for games like GTA, CoD, etc, etc... i don't miss them, and i don't view them as the most important games on the market... that's not the problem...

Problem is, you have to please all the consumers, or at least a maximum of the potential consumers, by offering a very good choice: that's a very simple law in every business out there... and that choice, for many gamers, has to include most of the best multiplatform games, now bein' exclusives to PS360, as well as some great exclusives for each console...

Nintendo has and always had great exclusives: their own games... but when some Nintendo's reps are tellin' that "Wii is a console for everybody"... if they want this to be REALLY true, then Wii needs to play the new Final fantasy, the new GTA, the new CoD, the new Bioshock, the new Resident Evil, the new Street Fighter, the new Assassin's Creed, the new Batman Arkham Asylum, the new Bayonetta, and so on and on...

Otherwise, it will be a great console, with many dedicated and happy gamers, but it won't be the "real" market leader it could have been, with the same weight as the PS2 last gen... and so, it will not see huge investments made by 3rd parties, who see maybe 48% of the home consoles gamers bein' Wii gamers (and amongst these, millions of multiplatform gamers, btw), but more than 60% of that market already taken by Nintendo's 1st party games...

If you also think of all the "mass market" people who have bought a Wii ONLY for Wii Sports and Wii Fit, and won't buy tens and tens of other games, what's left, as far as "an healthy market for third parties" is concerned?

Just tell me, just show me: some "niche" games sellin between 200 and 500k? Some casual games sellin sometimes good, sometimes bad? And some music games sellin very good? And then? What will convince the 3rd parties?

Nintendo core gamers? They were 15-20 millions last gen on GC, and they're still the same, you know... they buy just as many games as any "avid" gamer out there, that's true, but are they THAT important in the eyes of 3rd parties?

And as the answer is no, say goodbye to the vast choice the other consoles may have... even with the Wii's success, we're in the same situation as during the N64-GC days, slightly better maybe, but only slightly... now, if that's good enough for you, great... but you have to understand that it's not good enough to attract much more "core" gamers, who ARE essential in this industry... like it or not...