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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Iwata (not laughing): ' We failed with the Wii'

Soriku said:
Ail said:
Soriku said:
"except the demographics of PS2 and Wii owners isn't the same."

Yeah they are. They both target EVERYONE. You don't think there were lots of casuals out to buy PS2 games too?

Seen any 30+ mum purchasing a PS2 for herself? Or even a commercial depicting such a thing ? 


What...it's not like gamers or kids or nongamers that aren't moms over 30 haven't bought anything for the Wii either.

Doesn't this mean that the Wii is targeting even more than the PS2?

Not really.

Not like it's targeting the FPS or sports fan that had a PS2 for example...( or the realistic racing simulation fans..)



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

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In my book, Mario games other than Mario Party are pretty much core games, as are Zelda, Metroid, Pokemon, F-Zero, etc.

Or was Nintendo doing blue ocean audience expansion during the NES days?  No, core games can bring people to a system, too, and expand audiences (so yeah, they're also bridge games).

What's new about the Wii vs. GCN etc is the move from Mario-type games as the salient concept to balance boards, vitality sensors, Wii Music-type stuff, etc.  When it hits, it hits big time because the potential audience is huge, but in the meantime they should be bringing more Mario, F-Zero, etc, games which would together drive sales significantly in a demographic that spends a ton on games.

 

EDIT: wow, I see that you define any game with legs as NOT a core game but a momentum game.  Discussion over.  That is ridiculous.



Avinash_Tyagi said:
The issue isn't that third parties failed to deliver the software 68soul, it was Nintendo that screwed up with animal crossing and Wii Music and not having anything to expand upon the Wiimote/motion plus and the balance board, it has nothing to do with third parties, if Nintendo had been on top of their game, they could have done it themselves.

No sorry, the multiplat games aren't what define the leader, or sell to the widest audience, Nintendo titles have done that, and its the lack of Nintendo titles that continued that trend that is the reason for the lost momentum.

New hardware and even just another Zelda won't do it, the next Zelda has to be able to really define what the motion plus can do, and really take it further than Wii Sports resort, but Nintendo didn't do that earlier with other games, this is where their failing is. New Hardware won't rectify the problem because New Hardware doesn't automatically make new software, you have to have the software that can define and expand on the hardware, and Nintendo doesn't have that yet.

 

I'm sorry, but the best multiplatform games ARE needed...

The Wii's potential market is declining, because it's already saturated: most of the past Nintendo core gamers (basically, a large part of the 20 millions GC owners) now have a Wii for a long time... and most of the people who were attracted by the "cool new things" that were Wii Sports, and then Wii Fit, now have a Wii as well... Wii Sports Resort and Wii Fit+ are maybe nice updates, but the people who buy these are mainly the ones who already had the originals...

And all the best Nintendo franchises won't suddenly attract millions of newcomers: the "usual" 5 millions Zelda lovers are ALREADY here, the "usual" 10 millions Mario lovers are ALREADY here too, and Mario Kart has already done an incredible job by attracting 7 millions more...

But no Starfox, no Donkey Kong, no Fire Emblem, no Metroid, no F-Zero, no Kid Icarus will suddenly attract millions and millions of newcomers... all these games will please the Nintendo fans, that's for sure... and most of the times, not EVEN all of them: just 500k, 1 million, 2 millions... so "outsiders"? Don't even think about it, they're NOT interested: otherwise, they would already have a Wii as well...

The ONLY exception would be an INCREDIBLE WM+ Zelda, a game so awesome that all the "hardcore" gamers out there suddenly think: this is TOO good, now it's time for me to buy a Wii... a game so good that it could be considered as one of the best ever, and the ultimate immersive experience in gaming ever...

But such a Zelda won't be enough: the console will need a GTA, will need a FF, will need ALL the most successful franchises not exclusives to Sony or Microsoft... otherwise, all the "avid hardcore gamers" not really into 1st party Nintendo games won't ever touch a Wii...

We all know by now that the actual Wii is technically very limited: it already was in 2006, so now... and it's a pain in the a** for many devs to DOWNPORT... to convince them, Nintendo needs a more powerful hardware, very easy to program and to master, so that the costs of a Wii port are as small as possible, and the games as good as possible... then, most devs wont refuse easy additionnal sales for nearly the same budget as their actual PC-PS360 projects...

We've waited for three years now, three years wondering if these "exclusive, expensive, AAA" Wii games by 3rd parties would come, or not... and there are a few, yes, finally... in 2010, 4 years after launch... but a few isn't enough...

Wii needs ALL the 3rd parties best, and also needs the money of all these "avid, hardcore gamers"...

Cos you see, that's your other BIG mistake: you want Nintendo to attract that "miraculous" new mass market... but this type of gamers only buy 3 or 4 games each year, while each "avid hardcore gamer" may buy 5 or 10 times more...

If you view it that way, 1 million "hardcore gamers" are as important as 5 millions "casual" gamers... and THEY are the ones who create profits for most 3rd parties: for the most successful franchises as for most "niche games"... while that brand new "mass market" will only buy a handful of games... and nearly all the time, only Nintendo games: it's a vicious circle, and you can't expect the 3rd parties to see a lot of potential in such a situation...

Sorry if i'm a little bit too long... but really, if PS360 move on the controller side, Nintendo needs to move on the hardware side... to stay competitive, and relevant in a (very) near future... otherwise, Wii will finally be "a fad"... a very successful and lasting one, but a fad anyway...

 



 

"A beautiful drawing in 480i will stay beautiful forever...

and an ugly drawing in 1080p will stay ugly forever..."

theprof00 said:
Soriku said:
"except the demographics of PS2 and Wii owners isn't the same."

Yeah they are. They both target EVERYONE. You don't think there were lots of casuals out to buy PS2 games too?

targeting all ages and women does not mean everyone.

It does. Do you not know what the phrase "all ages" means?



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

@loudhotwhitebox
YES!



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For those who are too laizy to read what Iwata said, just read my translation here k?
"Sorry bros, we didn't have enough awesome games for youse, interest went south see, cos wes didn't have that "next big thing" kinda game ... I mean, yeah it sucked for us too and we even had to cut the price and all, tsk, soz to disappoint all of use bros" He then turns and accepts the seedless grapes fed to him by one of his 18-24 year old bikini clad assistants.




Loud_Hot_White_Box said:

In my book, Mario games other than Mario Party are pretty much core games, as are Zelda, Metroid, Pokemon, F-Zero, etc.

Or was Nintendo doing blue ocean audience expansion during the NES days?  No, core games can bring people to a system, too, and expand audiences (so yeah, they're also bridge games).

What's new about the Wii vs. GCN etc is the move from Mario-type games as the salient concept to balance boards, vitality sensors, Wii Music-type stuff, etc.  When it hits, it hits big time because the potential audience is huge, but in the meantime they should be bringing more Mario, F-Zero, etc, games which would together drive sales significantly in a demographic that spends a ton on games.

 

EDIT: wow, I see that you define any game with legs as NOT a core game but a momentum game.  Discussion over.  That is ridiculous.


2D mario isn't core, how could it be core? When people first picked up the NES, most were not core, they were beginning gamers just playing for the first time. So no, its not core, it can bridge between core and expanded, but its not core itself.

 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

theprof00 said:
avinash, so you think they would do better to keep expanding and expanding?
Sure, sales would continue, but when you expand you also spread yourself thin right?

Well that's when you open more internal studios

 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

@68soul, how is Wii's potential market saturated? There are hundreds of millions of people who don't own a Wii and are not gamers, but could afford it, there is a much larger market still untapped by Wii.

The core nintendo games won't attract, you're right, but neither will the core third party, the multiplats aren't going to help push the Wii sales, what is needed is software to reach those hundreds of millions who still haven't gotten into gaming.


GTA and FF will not give the Wii the sales that it needs, if it could, then MS and Sony wouldn't be so far behind the Wii.

Nintendo never had trouble selling software to the mass market that only buys 3-4 games, maybe because they buy more games than you know

No Wii doesn't need to move on the hardware side, until they can find another disruption, one that shatters the Wii market and creates a totally new one.



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

LordTheNightKnight said:
theprof00 said:
Soriku said:
"except the demographics of PS2 and Wii owners isn't the same."

Yeah they are. They both target EVERYONE. You don't think there were lots of casuals out to buy PS2 games too?

targeting all ages and women does not mean everyone.

It does. Do you not know what the phrase "all ages" means?

age is a demographic modifier, as in male 20-24, or female 10-15.

However, there are other demographics that, while sharing similarities with age demographics, are independent.

 

For example, if I make a new kind of football helmet, the demographic I target will be team owners. While these team owners are probably male 40-70, my demographic is still "team owners", not "males 40-70", because the majority of "males 40-70" are not team owners.

This is what I mean when I say "targeting all ages does not mean everyone".