Legend11 said: Non Sequor said: FPSs really get higher ratings than they deserve if you ask me. Who asked you? Sorry but seeing you slam a game like Half-Life 2 for example which I suspect you haven't played (otherwise how could you possibly say the environments aren't varied in it?) and bringing up Metroid Prime 3 makes me think you're just a Nintendo fanboy sounding off, which while you have every right to just don't expect to be taken seriously by people that actually play first person shooters and know quality games when they play them. Also you accuse first person shooters of all being the same which is pretty ridiculous when you compare something like Bioshock to Halo 3 for example. Sorry but your entire argument pretty much falls apart and while you may like a certain type of game (first person adventure or whatever people want to call MP3) don't use that to slam first person shooters, especially great ones. I could list for example some of the new things Halo 3 brings to the table but why bother since you have already passed judgment on first person shooters.

 Wolfenstein 3D was my first FPS. I have more than a little experience with them. I have played through Bioshock, Half-life 2, and Half-life 2 Episode 1 and I'm currently half way through Episode 2.

Let me restate my point since you didn't seem to get it the first time. I didn't mean that FPS games are all alike, I meant that a typical FPS trots out a few design elements at a time (a few types of enemies and an environment design) and then spends the next several hours regurgitating permutations on them before introducing something new at which time the cycle repeats. I don't want to spend two fucking hours fighting nothing but headcrab zombies in a parking garage or fighting soldiers in a decaying city or driving a dune buggy around for 30 feet then getting out to open one of 30 gates. I wouldn't mind spending this long in each environment if they had some landmarks to make one section visually distinct from the last. The ruined cities should have ruined monuments and some buildings to go through that are more interesting than the same old abandoned apartment buildings.

 I think I have some very valid design complaints that have persisted since the beginning of the FPS genre and I only brought up Metroid Prime because I think it addresses them. Metroid Prime has much more diverse designs and tries to keep each environment varied internally. There are landmarks and new things to see everywhere. When you explore an area for the first time you're constantly running into new enemies.  These design elements could be incorporated into FPSs without making them FPAs.

zaphodile said: Non Sequor said: The big problem is that FPSs lack variety. A typical FPS has you spend 2 or 3 hours in environment A fighting 2 or 3 types of enemies, then 2 or 3 hours in environment B fighting 2 or 3 types of enemies, then 2 or 3 hours in environment C fighting a mix of the enemies from environments A and B, and so on and so forth. It just gets so tedious fighting the same things over and over again without any real variety in the setting. The only game first person series that I've played that breaks away from this is Metroid Prime which has much more elaborate and varied environment designs along with an immense variety of enemies. But we all know that the critics loved Bioshock more than Metroid Prime 3. I agree on the lack of variety, but accusing HL2 of this is proposterous. HL2's variation of enemies, environments and gameplay was one of it's strongest parts.

 
I probably would have been happier with it if they made each segment of the game shorter and added one more segment in another environment and added more variety to the battles with the big synths. I just felt like that each segment of the game overstayed its welcome and I was just begging to get somewhere that would advance the plot.

As a whole, HL2 and Bioshock aren't bad games, it's just that they have some flaws
that keep me from feeling that they deserve to be put in the 90+ category and I feel like a lot of FPS fans have trained themselves to overlook these flaws.

5-6 hour compaign..oh wait its on the 360...

There have been a lot of very highly rated games lately, but I think this is due in part to the fact that there have been a lot of highly anticipated good games. I haven't played them all, so I can't say whether they're all deserving of the ratings they're getting, but it seems that in general more highly hyped games get better ratings.

TheBigFatJ said: There have been a lot of very highly rated games lately, but I think this is due in part to the fact that there have been a lot of highly anticipated good games. I haven't played them all, so I can't say whether they're all deserving of the ratings they're getting, but it seems that in general more highly hyped games get better ratings.

It definitely is a great year for gaming :)

leo-j said: 5-6 hour compaign..oh wait its on the 360...

It would be really bad if it didn't have online multiplayer.

@Non Sequor

Oops misread your first post (I didn't bother to do anything but skim it after the first two sentences).

Legend11 said: @Non Sequor Oops misread your first post (I didn't bother to do anything but skim it after the first two sentences).

 That's OK, I really adopted too harsh a tone. I just feel like the FPS genre needs to do some more growing. Half-life 2 and Bioshock are definitely steps in the right direction, I just feel like there is so much more to be done.

Eh, the 5-6 hour campaign killed it for me. I think game developers half-ass the single player because that's the part that requires actual creativity of design (good levels, good enemies, good plot), and instead focus on multiplayer because they just have to churn out 10 maps, balance things out, and viola they just built a game with much less effort and creativity. It's making it really hard for games to be taken seriously as an art form.

Non Sequor, sorry but you lost me when you criticized HL2. It's really odd for someone to like MP3 but not HL2, considering both are intelligent shooters that have a lot of puzzle elements in their design. Both also have very diverse environments. Half-Life 2 has brilliant level design and you were constantly changing setting. I don't understand your complaints about this game at all. Bioshock got somewhat repetitive, but HL2? No, that game constantly changed setting.

leo-j said: 5-6 hour compaign..oh wait its on the 360...

Heavenly Sword says "Hi".

Now stop trolling.