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Forums - Sales Discussion - Which is moraly (not legaly) worse? Secondhand _ Pirating _ Renting_Lending

S.T.A.G.E. on 25 October 2009

Pirating only proves that you want a product and aren't willing to pay for it at all. Brand new or second hand, it doesn't matter, you just do not want to pay. Pirates do not support anything, because by definition support is either to sustain, bear, serve as a foundation or hold up. In essence pirates do none of these things. The only thing that holds it together

Pirate(noun)-a person who uses or reproduces the work or invention of another without authorization.

Pirate (verb)- A:to commit piracy upon; plunder; rob.
B: to use or reproduce (a book, an invention, etc.) without authorization or legal right: to pirate hit records.

In essence gaming pirates are modern day PC/console thieves. Developers should know the difference as to where they are being "supported" by these people or not.



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daiyumn on 25 October 2009

I'm going to have to say Pirating.



I am a loyal SONY fan and will always be.

I am also a PS1, PS2, PS3 and a PSP owner.

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Akvod on 25 October 2009
vlad321 said:
Akvod said:
vlad321 said:
 

Yes you are. The person you sold the game to did not not pay the developer for his intellectual property. YOU got paid for the developer's intellectual property. You violate the intellectual property rights of the person who's intellectual property it actually is. The dis is your property, but the game still isn't, it's the intellectual property of the developer, who sees no money. You are basically stealing his income.

Also that's the worst argument I have ever seen. It helps the industry by makingn it more money but it's still bad!

If we say that it's immoral because the producer didn't get any money, then what about giving away/gifting products? The developer gets no money.

Or if it's because the re-seller made money and benefited from selling the product, what if the re-seller just gave it away instead? If making money is the defining issue, then it'll be ok for people to copy and give away things (the biggest example would be medicine).

Violating intellectual property isn't defined as "benefiting from the works/products of others". If we're going to do that, holy shit, are we going to be validating a lot of other arguments and craziness.

That's absolutely too general.

 

 

Going back to the giving away example here's 4 scenarios:

Consumer owns a copy of a product, and sells it.

Consumer owns a copy of a product, and gives it away.


Consumer replicates a product, and sells it.

Consumer replicates a product, and gives it away.

 

 

10 seconds, intuitevely, tell me what you think is right and wrong.

Now, tell me if you see any contradictions.

 

Leaving that aside...

 

When we resell a copy of a software or game that we own, we're selling a physical property that we own. The developer doesn't own our discs anymore, and doesn't own the actual data or coding inside it. They own the RIGHT TO PRODUCE the [data/code/art/brand name/etc].

All 4 result in the developers gtting no money, all 4 are equally bad. Also yes you ae allowed to resell the physical copy, but that's just a CD. You however, are not alloed to resell the game itself, that is, the intellectual property. If you wipe the disk go ahead and resell it, but it would have to be blank.

@STAGE

Rental companies pay continuous royalties to the developers because they are using their intellectual propety, very much like how radio and music is.

O.o

You REALLY, think it's immoral to give away your own property... What do you think about buying a gift for somebody and giving it to them on their birthday. You clearly are thinking like a robot, and didn't give me your intutitive response.

Stealing intellectual property is to produce something yourself. Having intellectual property is for an producer to have the exclusive right of producing said product.



nofingershaha on 25 October 2009

Nothing pisses off a publisher more than when you buy a used game. Not only are they not receiving any money, they can't even bring you or the retailer to court.



Akvod on 25 October 2009
nofingershaha said:
Nothing pisses off a publisher more than when you buy a used game. Not only are they not receiving any money, they can't even bring you or the retailer to court.

But what do you think are the moral implications of buying a used game... I hope you're not saying that if one group if pissed or doesn't benefit, it's immoral.



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nofingershaha on 25 October 2009
Akvod said:
nofingershaha said:
Nothing pisses off a publisher more than when you buy a used game. Not only are they not receiving any money, they can't even bring you or the retailer to court.

But what do you think are the moral implications of buying a used game... I hope you're not saying that if one group if pissed or doesn't benefit, it's immoral.

In my opinion, buying a used game isn't morally wrong. Publishers should offer us a better reason why we should buy something new. After all we are only looking after ourselves and our wallets, just like most video game companies.



Akvod on 25 October 2009
nofingershaha said:
Akvod said:
nofingershaha said:
Nothing pisses off a publisher more than when you buy a used game. Not only are they not receiving any money, they can't even bring you or the retailer to court.

But what do you think are the moral implications of buying a used game... I hope you're not saying that if one group if pissed or doesn't benefit, it's immoral.

In my opinion, buying a used game isn't morally wrong. Publishers should offer us a better reason why we should buy something new. After all we are only looking after ourselves and our wallets, just like most video game companies.

I agree.



vlad321 on 25 October 2009
nofingershaha said:
Akvod said:
nofingershaha said:
Nothing pisses off a publisher more than when you buy a used game. Not only are they not receiving any money, they can't even bring you or the retailer to court.

But what do you think are the moral implications of buying a used game... I hope you're not saying that if one group if pissed or doesn't benefit, it's immoral.

In my opinion, buying a used game isn't morally wrong. Publishers should offer us a better reason why we should buy something new. After all we are only looking after ourselves and our wallets, just like most video game companies.


I can say the same thing about piracy.

 

@akvod

The CD is my property, what's on it isn't. Also When I produce something? Pirating =/= producing ANYTHING, I'm just making a copy of the very property I bought. Like say, retyping a book and giving it to my friend.



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HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

S.T.A.G.E. on 25 October 2009
nofingershaha said:
Nothing pisses off a publisher more than when you buy a used game. Not only are they not receiving any money, they can't even bring you or the retailer to court.

Actually no. Publishers hate pirates more than used games stores. People have the right to sell products that they buy in the gaming realm, because it is their physical property after they purchase it, new or used. They cannot take the retailer to court, because most of the used games in the store are their property. The stores essentially buy unwanted games from consumers with credit and sometimes even money. It is their property to sell, therefore it isn't illegal. Second of all, it is very legal, because  they aren't making copies of the games (which is illegal), they are selling official copies to people. The only thing second hand stores do is decrease sales potential, they don't kill off sales like pirates.



S.T.A.G.E. on 25 October 2009
nofingershaha said:
Akvod said:
nofingershaha said:
Nothing pisses off a publisher more than when you buy a used game. Not only are they not receiving any money, they can't even bring you or the retailer to court.

But what do you think are the moral implications of buying a used game... I hope you're not saying that if one group if pissed or doesn't benefit, it's immoral.

In my opinion, buying a used game isn't morally wrong. Publishers should offer us a better reason why we should buy something new. After all we are only looking after ourselves and our wallets, just like most video game companies.

Nice save.