Must have missed your post because I really don't see anything rebunking any argument. Piracy on he whole is more damaging, however one pirate = 1 used game buyer when it comes down to it. You play the game without the developer seeing any money. Just because you paid for it doesn't mean it's different than piracy as far as the developer is concerned.

from earlier post:

"Another topic I didn't cover: Is buying used games immoral.

Seeing as the used market is inevitable for any product (like furniture and movies) I don't see why the gaming would be exempt.

However, lets look at the following scenario: There is 1 new copy of game x and 1 used copy of game x. I don't want to buy it new so I want to decide between buying it used or pirating. Now, after I make my decision, another gamer comes in wanting to pay for the game legally.

Now lets look at the two possibilities:
I pirate game: I get the game for free. 2nd gamer probably buys a used copy. Game store gets nothing from me, but money from 2nd gamer. Developer gets nothing.
I buy used copy: I get the game at a discount. 2nd gamer buys a new copy. Game store gets money from both of us. Developer sells one game.

This, I believe, is a simplified version of a common scenario. Developers would sell more new games if people who pirated bought used games instead. Therefore piracy is worse than buying used games."

-----------

We seem to agree, however, on the above point.  The thing we disagree on is: "however one pirate = 1 used game buyer when it comes down to it. You play the game without the developer seeing any money. Just because you paid for it doesn't mean it's different than piracy as far as the developer is concerned."

I just provided an argument above how the used game market is different than piracy as far as the developer is concerned.  As to your "On the individual level, the developer gets money neither from piracy or a used game sale" I find irrelevant.

So the whole point rests on the fact that if there are no used copies people will buy the game full price? Hell then you may as well say that if there are no cracked copies of the game people will pay to get the legal copy and no one will be able to play without giving developer money. Those games DO exist actually.

I thought you said yourself piracy in the long run is more damaging to developers as the used game market. So why are you arguing against that point now?

"Piracy on he whole is more damaging, however one pirate = 1 used game buyer when it comes down to it." - vlad321

I am saying that the second half of your sentence is irrelevant.  I wasn't using the example in question when I said that.

It is, because it's jsut like used games but more broad. I'm just saying that when I pirate a game and when I buy a used game there is absolutely no difference in the amount of money that the people who made the game see. You assuming that me buying a used game will force someone else to buy it new then you might as well assume that whoever pirated the game wouldn't have bought it anyway.

My reasons are normally #4 and that a game didnt have a demo. I bought Spore, im running a pirated copy with my legal CD key.

But I paid money for my copy used or new... Why do you get it for free?  If everyone got it for free games would be no existant.  GAME OVER!!  Pirates are anti-gamers.

Not that piracy is a good thing, but your argument has many flaws.

Because there would be many more copies of the pirated game, there are many more people who could possibly buy DLC.

The pirate has even more extra money then the person who sold their used game since they never spent any money to begin with.

If there was no second hand market, people who couldn't afford the full price of games would just buy "Greatest Hits" versions or just visit the bargain bins.

If you want to support the developers, buy the game at full price.  If you want to support the developers but cannot afford the full price, either wait for the price to drop, rent the game, or buy some DLC (whether you pirated the game or bought it used).

If you don't care about supporting the developers, buy the game used.

If you don't care about supporting the developers and you don't care about doing the ethically right thing to do, then go pirate the game.

Finally, if you don't care about supporting the developers and you really don't want to do the ethically right thing, then go and buy the game from a pirate.

Your money went into someone else's pocket. As far as the developers are ocncerned you might as well have gotten it for free.

Morals do not exist. Many people think morals exist and follow their own morals. The origin of "morals" is just self-preservation and preservation of your lineage. I make it a point to not steal anything, as in removing property from someone else to take as my own, because in our current society I could likely be caught and punished, which is bad because of self-preservation reasons. I also think that the world will be a better place without stealing and anarchy, for both me and my lineage. Of course I can rethink my stance given the situation, as when it comes to digital media, which doesn't involve any real stealing in the traditional sense. Therefore I pirate alot, because I can, and there's no real risk in doing it. Not doing it would be a pointless sacrifice on my end. But I do recognize the problem that if nobody pays anything, then I will not be able to continue to consume these goods in the long run, so therfore I often buy games that I played and liked before, or coming from companies I know make great games. When it comes to music I don't pay for the big artists and bands, because frankly, they don't need the money to continue to produce the music. But for smaller artists I buy.

Some people will probably be outraged by this kind of thinking and will claim that "in that case then rape is not immoral" etc. The thing is that mostly what is considered to be "moral" coincide with what is good for you and your genes in the long run, but arguing for morality for it's own sake is just pointless.