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Forums - Sales - Which is moraly (not legaly) worse? Secondhand _ Pirating _ Renting_Lending

vlad321 on 22 October 2009
1337 Gamer said:
vlad321 said:
1337 Gamer said:
^ Ok but being bad for the game market does not make it morally wrong. We are arguing the morality of selling used games in relation to the market. We both agree that both hurt game sales and developers profits but piracy is by far more morally repugnant. Because with used games we lose the ability to play them when we well them we cant say that about piracy.

You lose the ability to play them and instead you get money with which you can get something with. With piracy you can't do anything with it, can't go get a meal at a restaurant or anything. Used game market people are far greedier than pirates.

except pirates basically get $50 worth of free software. So they are greedier than second hand sellers.

Heres an example to illustrate my point

Pirate downloads Uncharted 2. Gets $60. Its a game that he would have had to pay $60 for this game and by pirating it he saved himself $60 so he basically earned $60. So he earned a net of +$60.

The second hand seller BUYS uncharted 2 for $60 gets tired of it and sells it for $30 back to gamestop. He ends up with a net of -$30.

So Pirate basically earns $60 and the second hand seller loses $30. now tell me how the latter is more greedy?

 

Thus pirates are more greedy than secondhand sellers!

Because everyone plays the game then resells it. I doubt the price of a used game will drop bellow $30 for Uncharted, no mater how many people it has gone through. So secondary used buy it at 30 then sell it back at the same price, THEY SPEND NO MONEY!

Then let's look at the initial person. He spends $60 bucks then sells it back for 30, so -30. However what about the pirate? He speds 60 bucks then puts it online and gets.... $0. So -60 for the initial pirate.

Greedier.

And in the end the developer loses all those sales and they see no games so used game pirating is as bad as pirating when it comes to developers/publishers.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

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1337 Gamer on 22 October 2009
vlad321 said:
1337 Gamer said:
^ Ok but being bad for the game market does not make it morally wrong. We are arguing the morality of selling used games in relation to the market. We both agree that both hurt game sales and developers profits but piracy is by far more morally repugnant. Because with used games we lose the ability to play them when we well them we cant say that about piracy.

You lose the ability to play them and instead you get money with which you can get something with. With piracy you can't do anything with it, can't go get a meal at a restaurant or anything. Used game market people are far greedier than pirates.

But theres a difference if you hadnt bought the game the money was yours to begin with for whatever you wanted to spend. A pirate cannot say that as he never spent the money and thus in a way was really the one who MADE money off someone elses work. A free $50 game is from a value stand point equivilent to getting $50 of free money.



Long Live SHIO!

1337 Gamer on 22 October 2009
vlad321 said:
1337 Gamer said:
vlad321 said:
1337 Gamer said:
^ Ok but being bad for the game market does not make it morally wrong. We are arguing the morality of selling used games in relation to the market. We both agree that both hurt game sales and developers profits but piracy is by far more morally repugnant. Because with used games we lose the ability to play them when we well them we cant say that about piracy.

You lose the ability to play them and instead you get money with which you can get something with. With piracy you can't do anything with it, can't go get a meal at a restaurant or anything. Used game market people are far greedier than pirates.

except pirates basically get $50 worth of free software. So they are greedier than second hand sellers.

Heres an example to illustrate my point

Pirate downloads Uncharted 2. Gets $60. Its a game that he would have had to pay $60 for this game and by pirating it he saved himself $60 so he basically earned $60. So he earned a net of +$60.

The second hand seller BUYS uncharted 2 for $60 gets tired of it and sells it for $30 back to gamestop. He ends up with a net of -$30.

So Pirate basically earns $60 and the second hand seller loses $30. now tell me how the latter is more greedy?

 

Thus pirates are more greedy than secondhand sellers!

Because everyone plays the game then resells it. I doubt the price of a used game will drop bellow $30 for Uncharted, no mater how many people it has gone through. So secondary used buy it at 30 then sell it back at the same price, THEY SPEND NO MONEY!

Then let's look at the initial person. He spends $60 bucks then sells it back for 30, so -30. However what about the pirate? He speds 60 bucks then puts it online and gets.... $0. So -60 for the initial pirate.

Greedier.

And in the end the developer loses all those sales and they see no games so used game pirating is as bad as pirating when it comes to developers/publishers.

Obviously the values for uncharted 2 will be different i was just making an analogy.

 

Secondly when you sell your used game you sell your liscense to use the said product/game. With pirating you dont lose this liscense and you also (illegally) give others the right to use this product without paying for it.



Long Live SHIO!

vlad321 on 22 October 2009
1337 Gamer said:
vlad321 said:
1337 Gamer said:
vlad321 said:
1337 Gamer said:
^ Ok but being bad for the game market does not make it morally wrong. We are arguing the morality of selling used games in relation to the market. We both agree that both hurt game sales and developers profits but piracy is by far more morally repugnant. Because with used games we lose the ability to play them when we well them we cant say that about piracy.

You lose the ability to play them and instead you get money with which you can get something with. With piracy you can't do anything with it, can't go get a meal at a restaurant or anything. Used game market people are far greedier than pirates.

except pirates basically get $50 worth of free software. So they are greedier than second hand sellers.

Heres an example to illustrate my point

Pirate downloads Uncharted 2. Gets $60. Its a game that he would have had to pay $60 for this game and by pirating it he saved himself $60 so he basically earned $60. So he earned a net of +$60.

The second hand seller BUYS uncharted 2 for $60 gets tired of it and sells it for $30 back to gamestop. He ends up with a net of -$30.

So Pirate basically earns $60 and the second hand seller loses $30. now tell me how the latter is more greedy?

 

Thus pirates are more greedy than secondhand sellers!

Because everyone plays the game then resells it. I doubt the price of a used game will drop bellow $30 for Uncharted, no mater how many people it has gone through. So secondary used buy it at 30 then sell it back at the same price, THEY SPEND NO MONEY!

Then let's look at the initial person. He spends $60 bucks then sells it back for 30, so -30. However what about the pirate? He speds 60 bucks then puts it online and gets.... $0. So -60 for the initial pirate.

Greedier.

And in the end the developer loses all those sales and they see no games so used game pirating is as bad as pirating when it comes to developers/publishers.

Obviously the values for uncharted 2 will be different i was just making an analogy.

 

Secondly when you sell your used game you sell your liscense to use the said product/game. With pirating you dont lose this liscense and you also (illegally) give others the right to use this product without paying for it.

Yes, and the developers see none of the money so whether someone bought it or not makes no difference. In the end the initial pirate has lost $60 and the iniial used game buyer has lost half that. From then on people play the game without costing them much money at all.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

ironman on 22 October 2009
vlad321 said:
1337 Gamer said:
vlad321 said:
1337 Gamer said:
vlad321 said:
1337 Gamer said:
^ Ok but being bad for the game market does not make it morally wrong. We are arguing the morality of selling used games in relation to the market. We both agree that both hurt game sales and developers profits but piracy is by far more morally repugnant. Because with used games we lose the ability to play them when we well them we cant say that about piracy.

You lose the ability to play them and instead you get money with which you can get something with. With piracy you can't do anything with it, can't go get a meal at a restaurant or anything. Used game market people are far greedier than pirates.

except pirates basically get $50 worth of free software. So they are greedier than second hand sellers.

Heres an example to illustrate my point

Pirate downloads Uncharted 2. Gets $60. Its a game that he would have had to pay $60 for this game and by pirating it he saved himself $60 so he basically earned $60. So he earned a net of +$60.

The second hand seller BUYS uncharted 2 for $60 gets tired of it and sells it for $30 back to gamestop. He ends up with a net of -$30.

So Pirate basically earns $60 and the second hand seller loses $30. now tell me how the latter is more greedy?

 

Thus pirates are more greedy than secondhand sellers!

Because everyone plays the game then resells it. I doubt the price of a used game will drop bellow $30 for Uncharted, no mater how many people it has gone through. So secondary used buy it at 30 then sell it back at the same price, THEY SPEND NO MONEY!

Then let's look at the initial person. He spends $60 bucks then sells it back for 30, so -30. However what about the pirate? He speds 60 bucks then puts it online and gets.... $0. So -60 for the initial pirate.

Greedier.

And in the end the developer loses all those sales and they see no games so used game pirating is as bad as pirating when it comes to developers/publishers.

Obviously the values for uncharted 2 will be different i was just making an analogy.

 

Secondly when you sell your used game you sell your liscense to use the said product/game. With pirating you dont lose this liscense and you also (illegally) give others the right to use this product without paying for it.

Yes, and the developers see none of the money so whether someone bought it or not makes no difference. In the end the initial pirate has lost $60 and the iniial used game buyer has lost half that. From then on people play the game without costing them much money at all.

WRONG!!!! Devs do see more money, not from that game, but from the one that the person selling that game, is about to buy with the money he just got!



Past Avatar picture!!!

Don't forget your helmet there, Master Chief!

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Netyaroze on 22 October 2009

Is there some campaigne against second hand software selling in the US ?

I never heard before that its seen as immoral. And terms like greedy in combination with Second Hand Shops. Wouldnt be all Second Handshops some kind of a problem no matter what they sale. Why should apply for Games other rules then for Dishes or Clothes. Or is a Second Hand Shop always a little bit immoral ? Whats with Ebay I mean that is then the worst of all.

If you resell a car or a TV or something else it always hurts the Big Companies but other companies earn money with that. And its perfectly fine. I cant see the problem. Its good that the money doesnt concentrate on ONE Spot or only a few Spots that would destroy the Economy. Infact its good for the Economy some Companies wont earn as much as they would but other ones are able to exist and make a lot of Jobs. And that results in more Money for the people and so they can buy more thats good for everyone. Its good that second HandShops exist. And its not immoral and if its immoral then reselling any goods is immoral too.










vlad321 on 22 October 2009
ironman said:
vlad321 said:
1337 Gamer said:
vlad321 said:
1337 Gamer said:
vlad321 said:
1337 Gamer said:
^ Ok but being bad for the game market does not make it morally wrong. We are arguing the morality of selling used games in relation to the market. We both agree that both hurt game sales and developers profits but piracy is by far more morally repugnant. Because with used games we lose the ability to play them when we well them we cant say that about piracy.

You lose the ability to play them and instead you get money with which you can get something with. With piracy you can't do anything with it, can't go get a meal at a restaurant or anything. Used game market people are far greedier than pirates.

except pirates basically get $50 worth of free software. So they are greedier than second hand sellers.

Heres an example to illustrate my point

Pirate downloads Uncharted 2. Gets $60. Its a game that he would have had to pay $60 for this game and by pirating it he saved himself $60 so he basically earned $60. So he earned a net of +$60.

The second hand seller BUYS uncharted 2 for $60 gets tired of it and sells it for $30 back to gamestop. He ends up with a net of -$30.

So Pirate basically earns $60 and the second hand seller loses $30. now tell me how the latter is more greedy?

 

Thus pirates are more greedy than secondhand sellers!

Because everyone plays the game then resells it. I doubt the price of a used game will drop bellow $30 for Uncharted, no mater how many people it has gone through. So secondary used buy it at 30 then sell it back at the same price, THEY SPEND NO MONEY!

Then let's look at the initial person. He spends $60 bucks then sells it back for 30, so -30. However what about the pirate? He speds 60 bucks then puts it online and gets.... $0. So -60 for the initial pirate.

Greedier.

And in the end the developer loses all those sales and they see no games so used game pirating is as bad as pirating when it comes to developers/publishers.

Obviously the values for uncharted 2 will be different i was just making an analogy.

 

Secondly when you sell your used game you sell your liscense to use the said product/game. With pirating you dont lose this liscense and you also (illegally) give others the right to use this product without paying for it.

Yes, and the developers see none of the money so whether someone bought it or not makes no difference. In the end the initial pirate has lost $60 and the iniial used game buyer has lost half that. From then on people play the game without costing them much money at all.

WRONG!!!! Devs do see more money, not from that game, but from the one that the person selling that game, is about to buy with the money he just got!

Yes, and piracy has sometimes shown increase in sales in some games because it ges far more exposure than if it had not spread by piracy. If your logic is legit this one is just as legit. Also the guy who [irated it even has more money to spend on more games from the developer than the used person.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

vlad321 on 22 October 2009
Netyaroze said:
Is there some campaigne against second hand software selling in the US ?

I never heard before that its seen as immoral. And terms like greedier in combination with Second Hand Shops. Wouldnt be all Second Handshops some kind of a problem no matter what they sale. Why should apply for Games other rules then for Dishes or Clothes. Or is a Second Hand Shop always a little bit immoral ? Whats with Ebay I mean that is then the worst of all.

If you resell a car or a TV or something else it always hurts the Big Companies but other companies earn money with that. And its perfectly fine. I cant see the problem. Its good that the money doesnt concentrate on ONE Spot or only a few Spots that would destroy the Economy. Infact its good for the Economy some Companies wont earn as much as they would but other ones are able to exist and make a lot of Jobs. And that results in more Money for the people and so they can buy more thats good for everyone. Its good that second HandShops exist. And its not immoral and if its immoral then reselling any goods is immoral too.

You can't pirate dishes and soap, you can games. Huge difference.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

Netyaroze on 22 October 2009

What has pirating to do with reselling ?

Have I missunderstood something ?

Of course you cant pirate dishes but where is the point ?



vlad321 on 22 October 2009
Netyaroze said:
What has pirating to do with reselling ?

Have I missunderstood something ?

Of course you cant pirate dishes but where is the point ?

Faulty analogy.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835