CGI-Quality said: atma998 said: CGI-Quality said: He's awful quiet all of a sudden............ No, you see I have a social life. I don't spend my entire life in front of my computer. Back on topic, I really don't know what you're trying to prove with your top 20 best selling non-bundled games. Again it's almost entirely dominated by Nintendo and GTA is still > than GT. You failed. Sorry. And nobody else does? And how did I fail, you said: "No. The ones where the whole top 10 is owned by Nintendo. The ones where Nintendo owns 18 spots of the top 20 and will own the whole top 20 really soon. This one. The only Sony game in the top 20 is guess what... GTA:SA at 18.04 million!" Who "FAILS" again? Right............

And why would we remove the bundled games again? Indeed you failed.

Moreover arguing over unknown entities such as DS and PSP piracy rates is pointless since they're unknown. If PSP attach rate is due to it being  more pirated than DS, therefore this rule also should work with X360/PS3 (PS3 wasn't hacked, there're no piracy of retail games on PS3 at all), but it don't (PS3 attach rate is lower than X360 attach rate). Believe me, I live in the 2nd biggest piracy market ;)

GTPSP and PSP Go! are not flops no matter what the trolls think. The whole time I've said I think GTPSP will reach 3mil LT including DL sales. We all know 80k goes were sold so thats another 80k sales for GTPSP and whoever else DL'ed it could be another 20k. So, ~350k FW sales for a PSP game is fantastic and I believe it will reach the 3 million mark.

@ Atma

The best answer to your question is: About the piracy thing.

DS lots of casual gamers

PSP lots of hardcore gamers

@ Saicho

You need a DS flashcarts or something like that to be able to play pirated games.

I don't know if this will help but I will post some pirated numbers for the other games.

Total downloads on one torrent site.

God of War: Chains of Olympus - 94,154
Patapon - 112,183
Ratchet & Clank - Size Matters - 197,113
Crush - 48,959
LOCO ROCO - 163,904
Wipeout Pulse - 116,965
Castlevania X Chronicles - 102,354
Metal Gear Solid - Portable Ops (Not Including Plus) - 231,054
Burnout Dominator - 269,486

Link: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=251896

That is just for one site so imagine if you add it up with the other sites.

The numbers you posted don't mean much if you don't have DS numbers to compare with. As it is now, we don't know if DS games are in 50K or 500K range. Also, people can easily download DS ROMs directly without BT since they are usually much smaller games.

On the same thread on Neogaf, people also pointed out piracy is pretty bad for PS1, PS2, XBox and even Wii. However, I hardly see anyone use that as a reason for bad game sales.

lol find it funny that atma always starts arguing on sony games.

ps3 has better games than wii

A problem i find about PSP is that most games seem like PS2 games rather than original hand helds. Still no doubt about it these are good numbers, and let's not forget handhelds usually dont get huge debuts(even on the DS)

A little bit offtopic, but it's funny how the same damn argument could be used to prove opposing statements ^_^ Here's a couple of stereotypic logical chains:

a) PSP is more hardcore than DS => hardcore = computer nerds who know how to pirate games, casuals don't, 'cos they're computer retarded people => DS sells more software per unit than PSP

b) X360 is more hardcore than Wii  => hardcore = more dedicated crowd to games, than casuals, hardcore people buy more software => X360 sells more software per unit than Wii

@NoCtiS_NoX

In truth, sometimes when you're trying to simplify some relatively complex matter thus helping yourself or others to understand it, you may oversimplify it, thus completely missing the point. That's exactly the case, when you're overusing "casuals vs hardcore" dichotomy. It may be helpful to understand how things work, but usually it just prevents from understanding things properly, as close to the real deal as possible. I won't bother with details, but if you ever will be interested in understanding how gaming industry works, you need to work out proper terminology base first.

Lame topic.

Sony's 1st & 2nd party games this gen just simply ain't selling well enough.

There, i said it and meant it.

Without MGS 4 sales, sonys games have sold pathetically.