Kantor said:
And people say Nintendo don't spin. Seriously? Relative to the growth of the world's population? Considering no more than 5% of the Earth's population even play games.... |
Don't take what I'm saying as gospel: like I said, I don't know. You'd have to hunt down their presentations, I don't even know where to look.
| bdbdbd said: @dharh: So, the problem was the games? Not HDD and online or the lack of them? I'm the opposite to you, with Wii, Nintendo won me back. And, they plan to get you back too. Nintendo couldn't take another direction with Wii than it took. It's supposed to be as different as possible from the HD consoles, while having as much features as possible with them, because otherwise their strategy might fail somewhere. @caio: Yes, they are incremental innovations. Incremental innovations aren't usually considered as innovations because of the small benefits they offer. Revolutionary innovations, however, are, because they offer big benefits. |
Considering how short the lifespan of the XBOX was there weren't even enough games really. HDD and online last gen is comparable to what motion control was _before_ the wiimote (and yes there was motion control on the PS2. It was crap, im looking at you eye toy). The big explosion happened this gen. Last gen there was only a handful of online content and almost no reason for a HDD (other than load times because the XBOX, once again, sucked). This gen we have an explosion of online content, even the Wii has it.
Look, im not saying Nintendo didn't start out in the right direction. I _bought_ the wii and a few games. But after that it was all downhill for me. I kept waiting and waiting for either compelling motion control games that made sense OR for them to come out with traditional control games as a handout to the rest of us who want to play games where motion controls do not make sense. But it never happened. Instead I see wii fit plus which ill never let my foot touch with 10 socks on and wii sports resort which if I were interested in exercise i'd _go outside_.
A warrior keeps death on the mind from the moment of their first breath to the moment of their last.
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@caio: Wii isn't a different story, even if you wanted it to be. You can only talk about your personal preference, which also doesn't equal quality.
Quality of the games is a key factor in the success of Wii and the games. There's a reason why "Wii" titles are made by EAD instead of a random 5th tier team.
@Leo-j, Kantor, Khuutra: The games market is shrinking for a number of reasons: the household penetration of videogame consoles has been largely stagnant for a long while. Growth have come from new markets, so the demographic haven't expanded.
Most of western countries are going to be hit by a population decline, at the same time the birthrate is low, which means there are less and less new customers coming.
People are getting tired of playing the same games in a new wrap over and over again.
Ei Kiinasti.
Eikä Japanisti.
Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.
Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.
SONY is the company that takes care of the majority of my gaming needs. The Playstation Brand is arguably SONY's biggest branch and has been the backbone of their profits for many year. It wasn't until recently that they were having the profitability issues they have now.
Constantly reminding about they plan to keep each system on the market for as long as possible. Willing to lose big to establish technology for not just now but future systems. Focusing on creating new IP's each gen rather than relying on the old to carry the system. Nintendo may care more about gaming, but IMO SONY has showed just as well IF NOT MORE than Nintendo that they're in this industry for the long haul.
That's good enough for me.
4 ≈ One
| bdbdbd said: @caio: Wii isn't a different story, even if you wanted it to be. You can only talk about your personal preference, which also doesn't equal quality. Quality of the games is a key factor in the success of Wii and the games. There's a reason why "Wii" titles are made by EAD instead of a random 5th tier team. @Leo-j, Kantor, Khuutra: The games market is shrinking for a number of reasons: the household penetration of videogame consoles has been largely stagnant for a long while. Growth have come from new markets, so the demographic haven't expanded. Most of western countries are going to be hit by a population decline, at the same time the birthrate is low, which means there are less and less new customers coming. People are getting tired of playing the same games in a new wrap over and over again. |
Where does everyone get this idea that the gaming market has been shrinking ?
Aside from Japan, the market has steadily been expanding both in Europe and in NA....
US Console & Handheld Total Sales
1997 - $5.1 billion
1998 - $6.2 billion
1999 - $6.9 billion
2000 - $6.6 billion
2001 - $9.4 billion
2002 - $10.3 billion
2003 - $10 billion
2004 - $9.9 billion
2005 - $10.3 billion
2006 - $12.5 billion
2008 : 21 billion$
And the Wii launched at the end of 2006 so can't say it affected most of those numbers...
PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !
PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !
@Rol: The recession of 1990:s and the late 90:s economic growth, ETA aswell as the breakup of Soviet Union, have driven the sharp growth in Europe.
@dharh: Yes, the games. Not online or HDD. Look, the more you try to talk your way of it, the more you point out that it's about the games, not the features in themselves.
In any case, all three current gen consoles share the two specific features, so it's rather pointless to keep arguing about their innovative value.
Yes, there were two camera controllers last gen, Dreameye and its ripoff, Eyetoy.
You're obviously trying to build an argument here, but they about as much in common with Wii Remote (and nunchuck) as Balance Board and Wii Remote.
Ei Kiinasti.
Eikä Japanisti.
Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.
Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.
| bdbdbd said: @Rol: The recession of 1990:s and the late 90:s economic growth, ETA aswell as the breakup of Soviet Union, have driven the sharp growth in Europe. @dharh: Yes, the games. Not online or HDD. Look, the more you try to talk your way of it, the more you point out that it's about the games, not the features in themselves. In any case, all three current gen consoles share the two specific features, so it's rather pointless to keep arguing about their innovative value. Yes, there were two camera controllers last gen, Dreameye and its ripoff, Eyetoy. You're obviously trying to build an argument here, but they about as much in common with Wii Remote (and nunchuck) as Balance Board and Wii Remote. |
so what's your explaination for the growth in the US ? It's not like Texas discovered Gaming in 2008.......
PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !
PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !
@Ail: DS however affected. Notice the 2002-2004 decline before coming back to 2002 level in 2005.
The number of customers isn't growing. That's when the market starts to shrink and companies look for growth by:
A: Growth in profit by producing a product for cheaper.
B: Growth in revenue by selling a product for a higher price.
Ei Kiinasti.
Eikä Japanisti.
Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.
Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.
| dorbin2009 said: So lets get this straight. Nintendo completely ignores what gamers want for ten years, then releases a motion control stick and all of a sudden they are the true mecca of gaming? Or did you forget every system since the SNES flopping on it's face? I'm sorry, but I find it incredibly ironic that for two generations, the company basically reduced itself to a fan service machine while the other two companies basically carried gaming on their back to the audience that now appreciates and adores the pasttime, and now because the Wii has sold so well, we can forget the last ten years. The PS1 and PS2 completely changed the way mature audiences view video games. The mere fact that Sony took a risk with the disk storage medium resulted in games as we know it today. Final Fantasy 7 would not have happened if there was just Nintendo in town (or at least without the FMV's, graphics, and content that you so dearly love). Microsoft proved once and for all that competitive multiplayer online gaming can be had on consoles. Halo 2 pretty much wrote the book on it. Xbox live, for all its flaws , was around before the other networks and deserves the credit for it. Don't worry though, the gamecube network was a close second...oh wait? Lastly, whomever wrote the article is a complete moron for the assumption that "Microsoft & Sony wouldn't care if they left the gaming world". Both companies have invested billions of dollars in the market, and have shown through continuous improvement that they in fact want to stay in the business. If anything, I would turn the tables on Nintendo and accuse them of being the laziest this generation. I actually think they wouldn't seem to mind if they abandoned the console market; after all they pump more quality games onto the DS than the Wii anyway. Or did you forget that the number one console system is basically a gamecube with rave sticks? We are in 2009 and the best the thing can do is 480p? Has it really pushed for quality third party support? Where's its commitment to the future? They just made you pony up for "Wii motion +", and apparently are calling it a day in the realm of innovation. There is some great potential for the system, but there is also room for a whole lot of change. But that's fine, keep playing Mario Galaxy on your high horse and making Sony + MS the villain. |
I must say this was a well thought out and very well conveyed point. I agree completely.
RolStoppable said:
The numbers make a big jump in 2001. Coincidently that was when the PS2 was finally readily available and three other systems launched (GBA, GC, Xbox), increasing the average price of purchased hardware drastically after the 5th gen systems were already really cheap to get. After that, the numbers are pretty much flat until the 360 launches and the DS starts to take off (which only happened in 2006). Also, there's an additional system on the market with the PSP. Obviously the Wii and DS do make a difference which can easily be seen by the 2008 number. That one goes beyond a simple "hardware prices are higher on average now" explanation. It's interesting that there was some growth from 1997-1999, despite the consoles getting more and more pricecuts. Although that could have been offset by the GBC and DC launches. On the other hand, during the 6th gen we see stagnation, possibly even a decline which is only offset by the wave of hardware launches from 2005 onwards. |
The number make a big jump each time a new gen is introduced.
Once the gen is started they stagnate for a few years until the next gen ( as 2009 vs 2008 will demonstrate it) but overall, every gen they grow and the market doesn't look at all like it is shrinking
PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !
PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !
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