$36 is pretty good...

Here let me do the math for you:

On consoles:

1 guy pays 60 bucks, develpers get 60 bucks. He sells it to veryone. Total dev got: 60 bucks

On PC:

1 guy buys it for 50 bucks and shares it online with everyone else. Total dev got: 50 bucks

So I guess you are right. Developers get about 10 bucks more buy selling to consoles than by selling to PCs.

I eagerly await your riposte to this.

P.S. I did put anyone who has traded games in the equal of a pirate. If you feel offended that's your own damn problem. Truth is not an insult.

Well, actually, I think encouraging piracy hurts the industry, and should be discouraged. I think that encouraging tradeins and rentals helps the industry, because the companies that profit from that are part of the gaming industry themselves. The gaming industry isn't just publishers, afterall. Gamestop is also part of the gaming industry.

I also think that posts implying that the large amount of consumers are "pirates" for trading used games legally, should be considered a profane insult, since to many consider pirates a lower lifeform. I certainly do. They make me sick. If a man will steal a videogame, a man has no morals. That man is a criminal by the law. A federal criminal in the United States.

As for yourself, you seem to have picked and chosen the arguments you could vaguely defend with your piracy rational, and there is no way you could ever actually win this argument, it's silly.

Unfortunately for your argument, the biggest flaw with it, is the one you didn't address. Piracy is illegal. Trading console games isn't. Thus, factually, trading console games isn't piracy, and you are wrong. Isn't that right? Aren't you wrong? Aren't you trying to pass off factual definitions as opinions in an effort to marginalize crimes?

Am I overstating my case. I'm trying to be very clear, because you didn't seem to understand my last post. It's more like you are trying to justify piracy to yourself, by pointing to used gaming as absolution.

Sure, I could point that though certain publishers would prefer a DD model, if they turned their back on retailers now, it would ruin the industry. I doubt shovelware devs would prefer DD. I don't think those little nicnacks you buy at B&M stores would fare too well with a DD only model. Doesn't matter though, point made.

I could also point out that rented games give developers a cut. Or how every single copy of a game sold resulted in the developers directly profiting, while no pirated copy of any game has ever giving profit to the developer. Or how Sony has the technology to lock games to individual PS3's right now, but doesn't use it.

And while I'm sure your rapidshare account is important for stealing, I could also point out that those items you've mentioned aren't exclusively part of the gaming economy, but ya know....buying a game is.

I think it's cute you've tried to stand up for piracy and all, but honestly, it doesn't make you look good to anyone but PC advocates, because people will assume you're either bias, or a pirate yourself.

Do you pirate PC games?

Do you encourage others to do so?

What are the differences in your opinion, between game rentals, borrowings, trading, and the used game culture, and piracy for games on...the PSP, for instance?

Is there a difference, between pirating a PSP game, and borrowing one from your friend?

Speak with me. I have SO many interesting questions.

Anyway, everything you've wrote misses the point.

The publishers aren't the only part of the gaming industry. Gamestop is also part of the gaming industry. Trading games is legal. Piracy is illegal. Piracy is theft.

Whatever amount of money publishers get is completely moot. How do you get stuck on that?

What is important is that piracy is illegal, harmful, and destructive to the gaming industry, along with being completely selfish, and downright greedy. It completely degrades and reduces the size of the gaming economy, and severely hampers the sales of games, specifically those the pirate heavy PC community dub as "not worth the money."

Giving gamestop a game you bought as down payment for Gear of War 2 is NOT the same thing as downloading Mass Effect 2, two weeks before it's released.

You can resell physical media. It's not stealing to do so. You can't resell downloadable content. You should realize that when making your purchases, or thefts. The end result of anything, while still being far more negatively impactful with actual piracy, doesn't condemn the act itself. Particularly in this case, when you are narrowly defining the end result by restricting the discussion to what the publisher makes, and not what gamestop, or the gamer makes in the deal, just to suit your argument.

You can go steal a bunch of shit off a truck, and tell the guy who bought a used car that you're the same, and it's not an insult? Get real.

I mean, stealing cars, right? Or buying them used? The manufacturer might not make anything off the resell of a used car, but he sure as shit would rather it get resold, then it get stolen off the assembly line.

I wonder what developers would say about piracy vs game trading. Hmm.

"Unfortunately for your argument, the biggest flaw with it, is the one you didn't address. Piracy is illegal. Trading console games isn't. Thus, factually, trading console games isn't piracy, and you are wrong. Isn't that right? Aren't you wrong? Aren't you trying to pass off factual definitions as opinions in an effort to marginalize crimes?"

Never said it wasn't. You're right, they differ legally.

But morally, however, they do not - the ends are the same, the game developers and publishers lose the revenue they would have made off that copy of the game if it were bought new.

You say pirates make you sick. Is this because they take revenue away from one of your favourite hobbies, or is it because they're doing something illegal? If the former, then people who buy used games should make you just as sick. If the latter, what of people who speed, or drink underage, and so on?

"Or how every single copy of a game sold resulted in the developers directly profiting, while no pirated copy of any game has ever giving profit to the developer."

Not ones bought second hand. When you buy a game second hand, the developer and publisher lose just as much money as if you'd pirated it.

"And while I'm sure your rapidshare account is important for stealing, I could also point out that those items you've mentioned aren't exclusively part of the gaming economy, but ya know....buying a game is."

Internet connections aren't part of the "gaming economy?" (Define "gaming economy." Sporting stores have been known to sell Wii Fit and others of the exercise games, and now Shopper's Drug Mart, a chain here of drug stores sells video games as well. Would they be part of your "gaming economy"? And if so, why wouldn't ISPs, who are just important to gaming as non-gaming, non-electronic retail stores like the two examples I just gave, be either?) I thought online gaming was an integral part to gaming nowadays.

"I think it's cute you've tried to stand up for piracy and all, but honestly, it doesn't make you look good to anyone but PC advocates, because people will assume you're either bias, or a pirate yourself."

I think it's cute you've tried to stand up for used game sales and all, but honestly, it doesn't make you look good to anyone but console advocates, because people will assume you're either bias, or a used game buyer yourself.

"Do you pirate PC games?"
"Do you encourage others to do so?"

Nope.

"What are the differences in your opinion, between game rentals, borrowings, trading, and the used game culture, and piracy for games on...the PSP, for instance?"

Strictly in terms of morals, they're all the same. Obviously, they aren't the same legally, however.

"Is there a difference, between pirating a PSP game, and borrowing one from your friend?"

Not really, no.

I was writing a post, then refreshed and saw that jeff addressed it just as well.

I'm getting the 360 version, I have no care at all for PC gaming....

Doubled up apparently, no idea why.

I'm having the same problem a previous poster had. When I click on the link provided, it clearly states Left 4 Dead 2 is on sale for $44.99, down from $49.99, which is a 10% discount. Where does the $36 price come from?

If you buy the four pack, it's 33.75 USD.