I think maybe 2 of those games listed in RED can come close to the original post... Those 6 games probably have as much sales as all those listed combined.... And probably twice the revenue earned life time, if not more.

I don't know bro. I'm not sure that Deus Ex, X-Com, Diablo 2, Warcraft, Starcraft, and Half-Life have have more sales than the Mario Series, or the Dragon Quest series, or the Final Fantasy series, and I highly doubt they have twice the revenue as the games I've posted combined.

You must be including World of Warcraft, or something? At least I hope you were....lol. You really think those 6 games he listed have sold more copies than the games on the list I made? You know I listed the Mario Series, right? The entire series....

Are you sure your estimations aren't just astonishingly wrong, and backwards? I'd assume the Mario Series probably has more revenue and sales alone, than all of those games combined. :P Haven't SMBIII and NSMB sold almost 30 million combined for just the two?

Also, I'm fairly sure that while the games he listed are good, the games I've listed are also good, and will suffice. In fact, the only people who would say that his list of 6 games is better than the vast amount of games I've listed combined, is probably a biased PC fan, and in my opinion, the Mario series alone is far more influential, and just plain better than all the games in the PC list he posted.

I'd shit myself and go crazy before I'd trade Final Fantasy for fucking X-com, I'm sorry. I know, let's trade the ENTIRE mario franchise for Warcraft, and the Metal Gear Solid franchise for Deus Ex. While we're at it, Resident Evil, the entire series, can go take a shit, because we wan't to play Half-Life 1, and let's just dump the entire Zelda franchise for Diablo II.

How bout this, these games HAVE been more influential to the gaming industry than any of those that were listed on PC:

The Legend of Zelda

Super Mario Brothers

Metal Gear Solid

Devil May Cry

Resident Evil

Final Fantasy

Super Mario 64

Tekken 3

Street Fighter

ICO

Link to the Past

Ocarina of Time

Final Fantasy III

Gran Turismo

If you wanted to list some REAL influential games on PC, you should say games like:

Doom

Baldurs Gate

Fallout

The Oregon Fucking Trail

Heroes of Might and Magic 3

You people seem to think that you console gaming is for n00bs. It may be, but I'm not one, and bullshit arguments are bullshit. Elitism and pretending to be smarter than everyone else only gets you so far. Every game I've listed not only belongs with the top PC exclusives, most of them surpass that paultry list whatsit listed, and the real list(that I would have to make myself I guess) doesn't surpass it either.

Touting your nostalgic exclusives doesn't mean a damn one of them is better than the nostaligic console exclusives, even though there are a whole lot less of them, and they DAMN sure weren't more influential. You want to list war? You realize you'd be taking on the entirity of console gaming, right? I could probably win with just the major SNES exclusives list....

How bout lately? How are the PC exclusives fairing lately, vs consoles?....Vs just the PSP?

Personal preference I guess.

Your list has been fixed with games that were original or brought significant change to the formula of its predecessor that has not been done in a previous game. For example, between DOOM and Half-life, graphics aside of course, the gameplay was the same, you just walk and kill someone and they dont hide they dont do anythign etc. and Half-Life completely changed that with things hiding behind corners dialog, story, etc.

As for PC exclusives recently. I'll take The Witcher over Oblivion, Fable II (probably 3 as well), Fallout 3, or any other RPG you can think of that hass come out this gen. Empire: Total War, Civilization 4 ( came out at the 360 launch with 2 expansions), any MMO, any RTS worth playing, and any game that came out on PCs and consoles were almost always better on the PC. With that you can save your shitty copies like Gears or KZ or Fable etc. cause honestly, they are quite mediocre with games compared from 5 years ago.

Also please go play XCOM or DEus Ex and you will understand why I sy they are so great. A game like those 2 has not been made since they came out, and not even shitty copies, PC or console, and that's a fucking achievement.

So, you finally bothered to make a list worth a shit?

It's still mega ass, and consists of every PC exclusive you could think up that was worth half a shit and came out over 10 years ago, but I applaud the effort.

FYI, MGS isn't a stealth game. It's espionage.

Also I laugh may ass off at your assertion that King's Quest was the inspiration for Zelda. I'd wager that Miyamoto has never even heard of that game, to this day.

Also, yeah, we can use metroid. It's not a Zelda clone in space, it's actually an open world platformer that directly inspired games like SotN.

Speaking of SotN, let's add Castlevania to the console list. Also, DuckHunt. Also, Tecmo Bowl. Also Ninja Gaiden.

It seems to me that you are just listing the games that were first, not the games that are most influential, as in, "have a lasting legacy," and "influenced many games and redefined the genre."

You're going more for "invented the genre," kind of vibe, because I'm sure it suits your argument. You're pretty selecting in your assertions. Kind of "after the fact" reasoning, just like your other argument.

While, like shio, I'm sure you could probably come up with a bunch of meaningless words to counter anything factual I've said about any subject, know this. A bunch of words disguised as a retort, can surely own me, because apparently PC gaming is flawless, and has a rich and storied history in the world of gaming, unlike consoles.

Let's switch gears though.

Is the PC spinning its wheels as far as exclusive content? We're losing exclusive content at an alarming rate. Sure, there is tons of shovelware and Strategy games. A few new MMOs. Same old shit, ect. Basically, the PC's exclusive content is surviving off Blizzard, and Witcher 2. Problem is, Blizzard only makes a couple of games per gen. Next generation, the graphics argument will be gone, and XBL/PSN is only catching up, not falling behind. We'll have all our core games integrated with motion controls on the console, and less and less support for the PC exists due to piracy, especially exclusive support.

Is the hayday of the PC gone? I mean, it's a CERTAINTY that PC gaming will never be the superior force it once was, when it had developers like Valve making exclusive content. PC gaming was poised to rule the medium, before the advent of common high speed internet access. Wouldn't console gaming have to die, for it to reach that height again?

It seems that exclusive content on the PC just isn't as good as it once was. All the good exclusives hit consoles. But consoles....they have first party developers....and they will ALWAYS have good exclusives, long as they exist. There is NO incentive to make a PC exclusive game now. No monetary incentive anyway, unless you're blizzard, and that's only because your games can't be done right on a console.

So, while I'm playing one of 4 AAA exclusives this month alone, you're getting all worked up over the L4D expansion pack.

You must have a console too. I don't see how a PC gamer could live without one, do you?

Consoles though...consoles are at their height. The industry is supporting 5 healthy consoles, and all of them are getting a realitively steady steam of great exclusive games. The consoles are getting all the old PC associalted developers as multiplats, and the multiplats that once hit PC soon after console released(Gears 2, Fable II) have uncertain futures, and if those ports come about, they will be afterthoughts. Consoles are getting multiplats first, like Assassin's Creed 2, and every other multiplatform game, and even Blizzard has feigned interest in porting WoW to the Xbox 360 this generation, though the console hardware isn't there yet for a Blizzard game.

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.

Please. Make it stop.

Well shit if we're just adding titles for such petty reasons let's add Freedom Force, great squad tacticaal game, or Total Annihilation where battles consisted of thousands of units. Youget my point, there are only a few revolutionizing games and things like metroid or Freedom Force are not such games.

And I agree about console exclusivity. Though with PC losing it's games the quality of games has gone down hill too. Compare Deus Ex to Deus Ex2 which came out on the PS2 as well. It didn't even compare to the first one. COmpare UT2004 to UT3. Same thing, The moment the frnachise hit console it went down hill. Bioshock is not as good as system shcosk 2. I can keep going on and on. Also none ofyour great 1st party exclusives come even close to the older PC exclusives. That's my problem with HD consoles. The half-ass games in good franchises. I honestly do't want a port of Gear 2 or Fable II since those games were, quite hoenstly, very boring, good for about 3 days and never to be touched again. That's my problem with HD consoles, at least the Wii sticks to what makes a console and ofers things in the consoles' strength (platforming, brawlers, etc.) and not things that consoels are very weak at (FPS, RPG, etc.).

1st party? You probably mean console exclusives

Oh you mean Galaxy wasn't as good as your older PC exclusives?

How bout MGS4? No? What about the upcoming Gran Turismo game?

Hmm, LBP wsn't good enough for you?

What about Chinatown Wars or Scribblenauts?

Maybe Uncharted 2 would tickle your fancy?

Or maybe Killzone 2, or Demon Souls?

Infamous any good?

Gears 2 and Fable II? How bout Fable III? Alan Wake? I know you were looking forward to Alan Wake, until the PC version was cancelled.

I'll tell you what. I'd trade those exclusives for your list of 6 pretty good 15 year old exclusives anyday. Those are just from the past 12 months.

Truth is, rose colored glasses are what make you think those games are so much better than modern AAA releases. Now, they're dated, really, and while they were good, so were console exclusives at the time. Difference is, now the PC has very few to no exclusives, and the BEST games of the time are exclusive to consoles.

While I'm sure you'd just love to whiddle away your time at GoG.com, we're not talking about overhyped games from 15 years ago here. We're talking about PC gaming, and its desturbing lack of NEW exclusive content. How can you live without playing the games that define this generation? Maybe that's why you remember the old gens so fondly? You have yet to experience this one with just a PC.

Not to mention every PC game is available on console too...you better get to telling me about them graphics!!! lol

Content is king, the PC lacks new AAA exclusives...right?

Please God. Make them shut the fuck up. I know they're insufferably ignorant, I know they're trolls, but this fucking awful shithole of a forum would be marginally more bearable if they stopped posting this utter shite.

Galaxy was pretty cool

MGS4 was pretty shitty movie wih some decent gameplay. However it had 9:30 hours of cut scenes, no thank you. That's bassically the entire god father trilogy right there. Kojima needs to learn from Valve and half-life when it comes to story telling in video games.

Aren't those hand helds? That's a whole different genre.

KZ2 was a mediocre shooter with even worse lag for contorols. Gears 2 was just as painful to play though as Gears 1, I haven't finished either (stuck at ch 5 in gears 1 , cat get myself to finish), Fable II was jsut outight a weak and extremely buggy RPG. I haven;t played Uncharted 2 or Alan Wake or Fable 3 (though I'm pretty sure it will suck as much as 1 and 2). I was in fact not looking forward to Alan Wake, Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 have so far been keeping me pretty busy in terms of what I wanna get soon.

Best games of the time are indeed goign to the console, best games of all TIME are still on the PC with some on older consoles and very few on the current generation, if you have been playing as much as I have, anythign under the best is actually kinda boring. In facat I barely got thorugh the last 2 hours (out of 50) of The Witcher (when all the themes and interesting stuff were gone and you were left with just "kill everything").  So please, show me games that are the best in a genre or no thank you.

Maybe if you can play any game in a console's history on the current consoles the games would be as good since on the PC games still get compared to games 15 years ago, and with a good reason. Why do you think that multiplat games are rates lower on the PC than on the console?