They all seem incredibly forced.. just saying. I highly doubt this will drive console sales in japan. If anywhere.

Why would developers force themselves to talk about something? Some of you guys are really incredible.

You're in luck.  As of a couple of days from now Sony's wand comes free with a system that cost's just $200.

the large system logo at the end might have a hint as to why they would be "forced" and I said forced as in it doesn't seem natural, like its staged. Like a lot of other things involving this particular topic.

You mean staged like they are on camera and are making sure they say the right words and that it was edited for presentation purposes, but of course.

No, that's not what I mean. This is called an impressions video, when this is clearly _not_ an impressions video. What you're seeing here is a list of things they were said to say in order to support a product. That's fine, this is a buisness, I just want people to know that you will never see a game out of the majority of these developers using natal. The technical limitations it enforces on game development will make absolutely certain that it is almost completely restricted to the realm of invisible stearing wheels, rail shooters and casual exercise games.

EDIT: To remove any possible bias in this discussion, I feel the same way about the wii and the PSwand.  Motion control is actually a step backwards in game design because it invokes limitation on the gameplay in order to meet the needs of the motion device. Control schemes for controllers allow for significantly more feedback from the player.

My issue with natal is that it takes force feedback away all together. no rumble, no feel. I'm just swatting at the air. I have no way of judging my movements with respect to my world, I have no way of feeling weight or accuracy. My movements will be shakey, inaccurate and hard to control. The Wii did this right, that is all we can do with our technology today.

Natal will be nothing more than an advanced PSEye, a technology the rulers of the video game industry abandoned because it was not worth their time, controllers provided a far better gaming experience.

Think about this, natal comes out, how do you interact with your world? You reach out and grab things? Grab what? there's nothing there. How can you possibly make your interactions mimic what is in the world? if you reach down, you wont see the screen, how do you know what you're picking up? there's nothing there. How does it know you've picked anything up? It wont. you simply will use gestures like the wiimote does. Waggle hand down, pick up item on the ground. You're also going to be limited to hallways, small rooms, and your field of range and reach is totally confined. You cannot move in or out of your gameworld to any significant degree without invoking the waggle commands.

You're not interacing with a virtual world, you're replacing pushing up on the dpad with taking a step forward, but you cant keep walking forward because you have no room. My point? you can replace everything Natal does with current technology. The PSeye does all of the tracking, put a DDR pad on the floor to simulate steping into direction, and the PSeye does the replacing you into the world. Want to speak into the game? there's a reason this doesn't work well on ANY device, and WONT work well on Natal, its virtually impossible to match and read the signials of a virtually infinite number of voice wave patterns. It simply will not work, no questions. Will it be managable? well, maybe... but it will be just as frustraiting as it's ever been. Remember, windows is a FAR more profitable and FAR more important buisness for Microsoft, and the voice recognition there will be superior to Natal and is still a hassel to use.

That being said, Natal will be a virtual heaven for games like the ones that have been showcased so far. But think about what it brings to the table. Sit down, stop, and think. If there is no force feedback, how is it going to feel immersive. I put my hands infront of me, and another pair of hands come out on the screen... well, thats neet.. i guess.. no.

Some genres that will work.

Adventure(Hideo Kojima Snatcher remake please?) -- This works, but again, without force feedback will end up being less enjoyable than playing it with a controller or a wiimote.

casual games like ricohete/brick breaker/tennis. This could be really cool, but with movements that fast and our demonstrations as seen so far, this will work worse than it does on the wii. It's just too inaccurate for high speed. The wii replaces any swing as a waggle command and translates it to a movement in game and its still very stuttery and highly inaccurate, imagine it with Natal? Better for sure. but how much better? The PSeye already does this flawlessly. Every demo we've seen of the ricochete being played on natal could be done on pseye on the ps2 (infact it already has been done, and a much more complicated version of the game as it puts a physical you in it.)

Exercise: These will work pretty well, but without force feedback will fail miserably. It needs something to put in your hand. Microsoft will need to package products along with it in order for it to work properly, and then, what's the point? Don't I already have this on my wii? What more can they offer? nothing.

I strongly believe Natal will be a massive failure, but Microsoft is putting huge amounts of money into peoples hands to attempt to make you think differently, But please, think for a moment, compare it to whats out there, Do you really feel it adds another dimension to gameplay?

I'd love to hear peoples opinions.  I am a computer engineer and I am currently doing a masters in Artificial Intelligence and how people interact with it so I find natal interesting, but I just don't see it being useful without a controller.

What will make Natal Amazing.

Games being packaged with periferals. Imagine Halo 4 with three types of plastic guns and a set of holding pouches. plastic is cheap, games are already sold way over the proper price, so Halo 4 at 60$ with these would be reasonable. So each gun has a single analog stick on it, thats all it needs, and a trigger.  The trigger and the analog stick send signals to the device, you use the analog stick to move and everything else is controlled by your body movements. Want to switch weapons? gotta put it back and pull the other out. want to melee? smash that thing at your enemy. Want to duck? duck. Roll? Roll(if you have the space.) This could be seriously amazing and far out do any of the other motion controls. This is what I hope to see, and this is the only way natal can work for core FPS games.

Basically every core game will require some sort of perifieral in order to function properly.The issue with this?


"controller-free gaming and entertainment experience"

We can always hope it get the support it needs. Im very hopeful and excited about the possibilities but im still nervous because we dont know what kind of titles/support it will have.

I have no doubt that Natal will succeed but I can fully understand peoples sceptism it is only natural. Natal is a step change, this will take carefull marketing to ensure that people get it. For example on these forums the Natal will still be compared to the Wand, PSeye or the Wii motion system when it is neither. That will not stop until Natal proves itself. The above lengthy post is a case in point. Yes he makes lots of valid points but the only reason he supplies is that it will not and cannot work.

I confess I thought the Wii name was a marketing blunder that would result in utter failure in the UK at least. I never thought for a moment that parents would buy into a game console that was effectively named after the act of going to the toilet. I was completely wrong and Wii has entirely rewritten the word Wee in the UK at least (Last time I said this I think it was misunderstood hopefully this time they understand it is not a dig at the Wii).

I also confess to thinking the Wii would only be a passing fad again time has proven this not to be the case.

So I am not saying I am any Oracle only that in the case of Natal I believe it will succeed. This is Microsofts next big thing and one of the reasons why this generation will outlast previous ones as they (That is all 3 vendors) experiement within the generation.

Yeah, I will say it could never happen. The 360 will not sell 5 million in Japan. The system will be discontinued long, long before then. It would take far longer than the 3 years you state.