BenKenobi88 said: You don't have to be a radical Christian to believe abortion is murder. I believe the same thing, and you ought to take other's beliefs into account before bashing them.

Exactly... Well I don't have a problem with it if it causes huge problems to the mother (health/death) or rape but I don't think it's right to kill a being when it was your own mistakes (condoms exist).

This image is kinda erm, disturbing... >_>

dallas said: I'm sure that he did, but it is likely that he called it that b/c he is dealing with people. Some pregnant women wouludn't like their unborn to be referred to in such a clinical kind of manner, but technically anayway, it isn't a baby until it's born.

Ok then. I oppose the abortion of a fetus, not a baby. That being said, although I appreciate the picture and the intent behind it, I'd rather we not get into things like this on this site. I knew as soon as I saw the pic that someone was going to say something and then I'd say something back. I kind of think that was the whole point behind the posting of the pic. Fairly graphic sexual talk, and now an abortion debate, has been going on around here lately, which isn't what this site is about. I know this is the Off Topic forum, but things have been getting too off topic. The bisexual thread eventually got into a moral debate, this obviously did rather quickly. Stuff like this(practically begging people to state their opinion on very touchy issues) doesn't do a thing to build a strong community on vgchartz. I'd rather not know how everyone feels on every single issue in the world. I come here mainly for info and a good discussion concerning games, along with some good off topic discussion. I think ioi and the mods need to consider the future of the site, and if they think debates on abortion, homosexuality, war, and people's sexual habits in general are necessary here. Why can't we just dislike people based on their console and game choices?

NinjaguyDan said: "Oh, I don't reject your Christ. I love your Christ. It's just that so many of you Christians are so unlike your Christ." Mahatma Gandhi

This qoute holds too much truth; it's shameful...

 

And to Kwaad i watched Kingdom of Heaven, and i didn't evaluate the movie in the way you did.

What i saw was arrogant men come in (mostly that guy who became the king i think) who lived high in some kind of Pride (which goes against the teachings of Christianity) and killed many people and lost miserably to the Muslims (turks/ottoman not quite sure which).

I also saw a Crusader do what would seem as the most Christian thing to do. He surrendered to the Muslims (giving up the "Christian Pride" and "Holy Land") for the well-being of the people's safety and lives.

The movie clearly shows the contrast between two different kinds of people, and ultimately a bunch of life lessons, (most if not all of which were taught in Christianity).

Also Kwaad you made a very important point. you said:

When it comes to life and death, a unborn 'fetus' is exactly that, a fetus. When do you consider a fetus 'alive' When the cells first divide? Becuase if a fetus with 16 cells has a soul, so does my dog. But the bible says my dog dont have a soul. When does a soul get attached to the fetus? Or even the infant child? When does a child become him/herself? In the womb?

That is what we don't know. THerefore it is not in us humans to decide whether it is right or not to destroy pre-mature human infants. If you're not sure whether it is righteous or not, then why even risk it? For what reason would you risk humanity, the basic moral ethical codes of human life, to destroy life that was concieved? If anything is necessary it is not destruction of pre-life. If anything it is necessary it is to rid the world of the wicked rapists and the people who have sex with no regards towards the life that may be.

EDIT: In response to quignotcb, i think that the freedom to discuss such topics should be allowed here. If not, what's the whole point of an "Off topic Discussion" section of the Forums? 

My girlfriend had an abortion.

She had too, she has Liver Cancer and the medication she is on reacted with the baby, she was rushed to hospital twice because of the pain in her whomb from the baby reacting to her life saving medication, if she let the baby reach the 3rd Trimester she would of probably died.

Wojtas said: Truth? What truth? You're right that christianity was radical, it slaughtered so many people during the past 1500 years that even WW2 casualties pale in comparison.

 "Christian"!?, you are talking about the Roman Catholic church, not Christians my friend.  Catholocism is not Christianity, they do not teach the Gospel accordian to the scripture.  If you want the truth, the Roman Catholic church slaughtered many Bible believing Christians.  I think that you need to study history a little more closely.

Kwaad said: When it comes to christianity, and killing people, there is a great movie out on bluRay, that tells my feelings perfect. Kingdom of Heaven. Watch it. And a quick history lesson. When christans take the city back, the kill all muslims. Man, woman, and child. (historically, takes place after the movie) Christans have more blood on their hands than every other religion in the world combined. (and their not the biggest religion either)

Once again you are talking about Catholics, not Christians.  Catholicism is not Christianity as I stated to Wojtas. 

BenKenobi88 said: You don't have to be a radical Christian to believe abortion is murder. I believe the same thing, and you ought to take other's beliefs into account before bashing them.

 

 You also don't have to be an atheist to believe that abortion is an acceptable form of baby-stopping.

Where do people in this thread draw the line?

1: "Every sperm is sacred" (no condoms, no non-pregnancy causing intercourse)
2: condoms are ok, but no morning after pill
3: condoms and morning after pill are ok, but NO abortion once there's a zygote (the sperm and egg have touched to make ONE CELL)
4: abortions are ok until there's a heartbeat
5: abortions are ok for first trimester
6: abortions are ok for second trimester
7: abortions are ok until THE MINUTE BEFORE BIRTH
8: it's ok to kill a baby until it's 3 years old (ancient Biblical belief)
9: it's ok to kill adults anyway so who cares? (death penalty)

tombi123 said: @kazadoom arbortion is not murder

 Hmm, taking away someone else's right to live? Yeah w/e. Your parents could have aborted you I will have you know so then you couldn't voice your opinion. Yeah I am a bitch. 

 

Every single sperm is a potential life. Millions of them die. Should every single sperm be put in a different woman so that with every orgasm I impregnate millions of women?

I'm just saying, each person should know exactly where their line is to have a consistent morality. For those who believe it's murder, are there absolutely no circumstances where it can be used as a last resort? I don't think anybody prefers using it as a first resort anyway.