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Forums - PC - Fun Topic. Which are better for Gaming? PC's or Consoles?

Manos on 13 September 2009
vlad321 said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
vlad321 said:
@Zenfolder

Ok, since we seem not to be caring about the money developers can make. You can pirate games on the PC for free. How can you beat that? When you rent and buy used games you still pay something, how do you beat free?

I hesitate to mention pirating as a positive for PC gaming, yet it probably is the reason a lot of people prefer it.

You mentioned used market. What's the difference between the two?

You don't know that? Really?



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vlad321 on 13 September 2009
Manos said:
vlad321 said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
vlad321 said:
@Zenfolder

Ok, since we seem not to be caring about the money developers can make. You can pirate games on the PC for free. How can you beat that? When you rent and buy used games you still pay something, how do you beat free?

I hesitate to mention pirating as a positive for PC gaming, yet it probably is the reason a lot of people prefer it.

You mentioned used market. What's the difference between the two?

You don't know that? Really?

If you think there's a difference then you have some very big problems.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

Smidlee on 13 September 2009
ZenfoldorVGI said:
vlad321 said:
@Zenfolder

Ok, since we seem not to be caring about the money developers can make. You can pirate games on the PC for free. How can you beat that? When you rent and buy used games you still pay something, how do you beat free?

I hesitate to mention pirating as a positive for PC gaming, yet it probably is the reason a lot of people prefer it.

Well you can't have it both ways,  if rented and used console games is a plus to the console market then piracy may not be as big of a negative against PC as some let on. One of the things some developers like about Steam and Impluse is it does kind of hinder both renting and reselling PC games. Of course some gamers complained for the exact same reasons.

 Beware buying used copies that requires either Impluse or Steam. With Impluse you still can play the game but without any updates.



ZenfoldorVGI on 13 September 2009
vlad321 said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
vlad321 said:
@Zenfolder

Ok, since we seem not to be caring about the money developers can make. You can pirate games on the PC for free. How can you beat that? When you rent and buy used games you still pay something, how do you beat free?

I hesitate to mention pirating as a positive for PC gaming, yet it probably is the reason a lot of people prefer it.

You mentioned used market. What's the difference between the two?

Pirating is stealing a game from the developer.

Buying a used game is buying someone elses property which was at some point, originally purchased from the developer.

The difference is, one is illegal, theft, and morally wrong, and one is legal, fair, and a staple of the gaming industry.

 

You think that pirating PC games is morally and legally the same as buying or renting used games on consoles?



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

shio on 13 September 2009
ZenfoldorVGI said:
shio said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
shio said:
 

CPU is the least required component for upgrade. CPU can last for ages, especially since Multi-core CPUs established themselves (since Core 2 Duos came)

Dual core processors are becoming insufficient for maxing the latest CPU heavy games.

Anyone trying to build a mainstream rig or better right now, would be silly to go cheap on the CPU and pick up a dual core.

Quad-core is the only smart thing to do, and in that instance, you don't need to play it cheap, because your older games will potentially only run off one of those cores.

What the hell is with this "maxing the latest games" crap? Do you realise that nowadaymany console games have graphics so oudated that are only around the "low settings" of the PC versions? If you want to maximize everything you shouldn't even be buying consoles.

CPU heavy games are less than 1% of the PC's game releases each year. Less than 1%! You can count them with your fingers

You only need to buy a good CPU at the time of your buy. A good CPU, not overpriced, not top-of-the-line, just a good one. That's more than enough.

Again, resorting to the "better graphics = better game" argument. Again, it is a valid argument for PC gaming, however, ignoring the many faults of the platform is pure omission.

As for having a PC with a cheap CPU just to say that it's possible, again, it's possible, but so is eating cow dung. It shouldn't be done, and your PC will be obsolete when you build it. Your console won't be obsolete until another one is released.

When building a gaming PC, you should splurge on any non-replaceable parts. Obviously.

Where have I even said that I only care about graphics?! I'm actually a gameplay-whore, which is why I can only play on PC since the freedom it has allows for far better and more refined gameplay on PC games than console games, which is what I believe most PC gamers are too.

This CPU talk is making me vomit due to your ignorance on this matter. CPUs have never been as cheap as today, and CPUs ARE THE LAST TO BECOME OUTDATED!!! I have had 4 PCs, and I never upgraded their CPUs. Even when after I upgraded the RAM and GPU, the CPU was still the last one to go!

Why do you think that even today 98% of PC games still support single-core processors?!



http://i48.tinypic.com/120qaon.jpg
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Manos on 13 September 2009
vlad321 said:
Manos said:
vlad321 said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
vlad321 said:
@Zenfolder

Ok, since we seem not to be caring about the money developers can make. You can pirate games on the PC for free. How can you beat that? When you rent and buy used games you still pay something, how do you beat free?

I hesitate to mention pirating as a positive for PC gaming, yet it probably is the reason a lot of people prefer it.

You mentioned used market. What's the difference between the two?

You don't know that? Really?

If you think there's a difference then you have some very big problems.

Other one is illegal and another one is not. Sounds like you are the one with problems.



twesterm on 13 September 2009
Senlis said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:

Wow, I've had a lot of great responses to my last post, and honestly, I didn't think that you guys stood a chance. I know that shio spends his existance arguing this, but I'm really quite convincing on this subject, and the fact that you were able to form decent argument has vastly impressed me.

Of course, being just one man, I can't respond to everyone, so let me throw you a few talking points as I come to them, and see if you have anything worth mentioning as a reply.

A. Senlis, you are dead wrong about one thing. Dependability is a problem with all hardware. Nothing lasts forever, and I don't care how you want to argue it, any PC part has the potential for mass market defect, just like a console part. I don't understand the miscommunication. Think about it. Consoles, however, have between 1 and 3 year warranties, while built computers don't have a warranty.

B. Also, IMHO, the "you can build X computer for X dollars in theory" argument is as old as dirt. It's not true. If you build a computer, be prepared to spend over 500 dollars on it. Otherwise, you will be running new HD games on medium with fluctuating stats in almost every case. People who really build computers, spend between 800 and 2000 dollars per build. Just because you CAN do it, doesn't mean you should. Shit begats shit. I mean, shit, how much did you spend?

C. Senlis, no controlling options is ever factually superior to another. It can't be. Some people prefer a joystick no matter what. They never learned to play with a mouse and keyboard. More accuracy does not equal "better" in everyones eyes, and some people would prefer the controls of The Conduit to a mouse and keyboard, because they are more intuitive. Let me reitterate, opinions are subjective, and that is the only fact in this argument. Again, please, look up the term "better" and then look up the term "subjective." You are wrong, sir, and you should admit it. Besides those things, I think we agree.

[cut out a lot of text that didn't respond to my post]

...but maybe you're right. Maybe the 360 is so much more important to gaming, that the RRoD was a bigger problem in the videogame industry than was PC piracy.

If console gaming died tomorrow, what do you think would happen to the core games being developed? Increase in amount, or decrease?

If PC gaming died tomorrow, how would it affect consoles?

/bow

I'm glad we agree on some points.  Let my clarify the ones you responded to.

A.  You previous post: "Dependability is a common issue with all hardware, and gives no advantage to either side. However, consoles do come with warranties, and built PCs do not." You never really said what the problem with dependability is.  If you are referring to how all hardware eventually fails, well yea that's true.  What I think of a dependability problem are consoles failing within 2-3 years.  That is horrible dependability.  The RROD from the XBOX360 is caused by heat issues.  I can easily increase the ventilation of my PC.

I guess you are saying build computers as a whole do not have warranties.  My motherboard is built by ASUS.  It has amazing dependability, warranty and customer support.  I remember one time that I flashed my ROM chip incorrectly and turned my computer into an expensive paperweight.  I called ASUS, and even though my motherboard was no longer under warranty, they sent me a new ROM chip already flashed.  I think the only gaming company that has comparable customer support may be Nintendo.

Back to Dependability is a issue because all hardware fails eventually.  You didn't refute my point that parts are easier to obtain and replace in a PC.

Better (according to Webster): improved in accuracy or performance.

Subjective (according to Webster): characteristic of or belonging to reality as perceived rather than as independent of mind.

According to Webster, KB/M is 'better'.

B.  I'll give you that one.  Maybe if someone is super dedicated and finds several "specials" or "sales" they can build it cheaper.

If computers do cost more, at least they do more.  I prefer to dual boot a gaming computer into linux so I can play games on windows, and do everything else on linux.  Keeps viruses off of my Windows system.

C.  Maybe I can explain my point better with an analogy.  Are manual transmission cars better than automatic cars, or is it just a matter of preference?  Manual transmission cars 1) Get better gas mileage 2) Give you better control over the car 3) has less maintenance on the transmission 4) transmission lasts longer.  Automatic transmission cars 1) are easier and more convenient to drive.

I already said in my previous post that a mouse is more accurate than motion controls or a joystick (positional based vs. velocity based).  That is a fact.  If you prefer joystick or motion controls over the mouse/keyboard, I won't fault you for it.  You never did disprove that a mouse is more accurate, you just keep saying it cannot be proven.

"If PC gaming died tomorrow, how would it affect consoles?"

PC pushes forward the graphics technology industry the same way Nascar pushed forward the automobile industry.  If PC gaming died tomorrow, advances in video games would come much slower.

"Wow, I've had a lot of great responses to my last post, and honestly, I didn't think that you guys stood a chance. I know that shio spends his existance arguing this, but I'm really quite convincing on this subject, and the fact that you were able to form decent argument has vastly impressed me."

Thanks.  I appreciate someone who likes a good debate.

@twesterm

"So, no, you didn't just shoot down my 3 reasons.  Stop assuming everyone has the same hard on for PC gaming you have.  I hate PC gaming and your endless ranting about how great it is isn't going to change that just like my endless ranting about console gaming will never change your mind."

Seriously?  You "hate" PC gaming.  Those are some strong words.  I don't even hate the xbox360, even though I would never buy one.

Compared to gaming on anything else, yes, I generally hate PC gaming for the reasons I've listed over and over again.

I'm not saying you or anyone else should hate PC gaming, it's cool that you like it for whatever reason, I just generally hate it for these reasons:

  • Upgrading your PC: I bought a "gaming laptop" last year that was pretty much top of the line.  It barely runs new games and runs hot as Hell.  Granted, yes, I bought a laptop and that's my own dumb fault, but I also use computers for things besides gaming and a laptop made more sense.
  • Not gaming on my awesome TV: lugging my computer from my office (have to go through the garage and up the stairs) or just fiddling with wires isn't fun and not something I like to do.  Even just leaving the wires ready isn't a good option because I use all my HDMI inputs and the wife doesn't like seeing wires hanging everywhere.  This just isn't a good option for me.
  • Couch vs. Office chair: I sit in an office chair all day long.  I don't want to come home and relax in an office chair to play games, I want to relax on my comfy couch.
  • PC Game Hassle: Even when I use Steam, there's still hassle.  When I don't use Steam, there's even more hassle.  As an added detriment, I'm left handed.  That means if I use the keyboard (which I'm probably going to do with a PC game) I have to remap every control.  I don't like going through 15 minutes of fiddling with settings before starting my game.  Then there's having to fiddle with the settings and tweaks in order to make the game run just right for your system.  Every game has a guide for getting it to run just right versus a game that automatically runs just right.  The most I have to fiddle with on console games is the darkness setting.
  • Sometimes PC games just don't work: Even with Steam games, I can have trouble getting PC games to work, don't know what else to say about that.
  • Patches/Installs:  Luckily Steam takes care a lot of this trouble but for any game that isn't on Steam it's still a giant pain in the ass.
  • DRM: Again, for every non-Steam game this can be a deal breaker.  I tried for hours to get KotorII to work and just couldn't because the DRM didn't like my DVD Burner.  The only alternative I had was to go look for a crack and hope it didn't have a virus.
  • PC Games are undersupported: PC games have no quality control like 360/PS3/Wii games have so it's pretty common that they are released buggy as all Hell.  These problems can be fixed quickly but would I rather have a 360 game working day one or a PC game working week two?

And there are advantages to PC games, I recognize that, just the disadvantages are far too great to bother with PC gaming.  These are my personal gripes for not liking PC gaming and Shio or whoever can come back and tell me that my opinions are wrong and I really don't care.  I hate PC gaming because I've had bad luck with it and console gaming is just so much better for me.



 

ZenfoldorVGI on 13 September 2009
vlad321 said:
Manos said:
vlad321 said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
vlad321 said:
@Zenfolder

Ok, since we seem not to be caring about the money developers can make. You can pirate games on the PC for free. How can you beat that? When you rent and buy used games you still pay something, how do you beat free?

I hesitate to mention pirating as a positive for PC gaming, yet it probably is the reason a lot of people prefer it.

You mentioned used market. What's the difference between the two?

You don't know that? Really?

If you think there's a difference then you have some very big problems.

No, you're the one with the problem. Selling used games is legal. Pirating games in general, is illegal. This is a fact.

Also, pirating games starts at or before launch. Used games are resold after an initial purchase. Every used game has been bought. Pirated copies have never been bought.

Not to mention the years of hardship pirating has put on PC gamers.

Sir, that's just insulting.



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

ZenfoldorVGI on 13 September 2009
Smidlee said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
vlad321 said:
@Zenfolder

Ok, since we seem not to be caring about the money developers can make. You can pirate games on the PC for free. How can you beat that? When you rent and buy used games you still pay something, how do you beat free?

I hesitate to mention pirating as a positive for PC gaming, yet it probably is the reason a lot of people prefer it.

Well you can't have it both ways,  if rented and used console games is a plus to the console market then piracy may not be as big of a negative against PC as some let on. One of the things some developers like about Steam and Impluse is it does kind of hinder both renting and reselling PC games. Of course some gamers complained for the exact same reason.

What I said to the other guy.

Used games are bought and legal, and in some cases encouraged. They haven't caused near ruination to the gaming industry, and they ARE NOT stealing.

Pirating is theft, and implying that it isn't just to defend your failed PC gaming argument pisses me right off.

PIRACY IS NOT A POSITIVE FOR PC GAMING.

Get over yourself.



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

Smidlee on 13 September 2009
ZenfoldorVGI said:
Smidlee said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
vlad321 said:
@Zenfolder

Ok, since we seem not to be caring about the money developers can make. You can pirate games on the PC for free. How can you beat that? When you rent and buy used games you still pay something, how do you beat free?

I hesitate to mention pirating as a positive for PC gaming, yet it probably is the reason a lot of people prefer it.

Well you can't have it both ways,  if rented and used console games is a plus to the console market then piracy may not be as big of a negative against PC as some let on. One of the things some developers like about Steam and Impluse is it does kind of hinder both renting and reselling PC games. Of course some gamers complained for the exact same reason.

What I said to the other guy.

Used games are bought and legal, and in some cases encouraged. They haven't caused near ruination to the gaming industry, and they ARE NOT stealing.

Pirating is theft, and implying that it isn't just to defend your failed PC gaming argument pisses me right off.

PIRACY IS NOT A POSITIVE FOR PC GAMING.

Get over yourself.

Yes selling used games are legal yet exactly what  can developers do to stop it? As one developer said they make absolutely nothing from used games thus in thier eyes they made as much from used games as pirated games.  At least a used copy of a game was bought once. This is why there is a heated debate about PC piracy and how much DRM really helps if at all.

 So buying a used copy of a game is a plus to both Gamestop and gamers but not necessary to the developers , the same with illegal piracy benefits the gamers and not the developer.