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twesterm on 13 September 2009
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Senlis said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:

Wow, I've had a lot of great responses to my last post, and honestly, I didn't think that you guys stood a chance. I know that shio spends his existance arguing this, but I'm really quite convincing on this subject, and the fact that you were able to form decent argument has vastly impressed me.

Of course, being just one man, I can't respond to everyone, so let me throw you a few talking points as I come to them, and see if you have anything worth mentioning as a reply.

A. Senlis, you are dead wrong about one thing. Dependability is a problem with all hardware. Nothing lasts forever, and I don't care how you want to argue it, any PC part has the potential for mass market defect, just like a console part. I don't understand the miscommunication. Think about it. Consoles, however, have between 1 and 3 year warranties, while built computers don't have a warranty.

B. Also, IMHO, the "you can build X computer for X dollars in theory" argument is as old as dirt. It's not true. If you build a computer, be prepared to spend over 500 dollars on it. Otherwise, you will be running new HD games on medium with fluctuating stats in almost every case. People who really build computers, spend between 800 and 2000 dollars per build. Just because you CAN do it, doesn't mean you should. Shit begats shit. I mean, shit, how much did you spend?

C. Senlis, no controlling options is ever factually superior to another. It can't be. Some people prefer a joystick no matter what. They never learned to play with a mouse and keyboard. More accuracy does not equal "better" in everyones eyes, and some people would prefer the controls of The Conduit to a mouse and keyboard, because they are more intuitive. Let me reitterate, opinions are subjective, and that is the only fact in this argument. Again, please, look up the term "better" and then look up the term "subjective." You are wrong, sir, and you should admit it. Besides those things, I think we agree.

[cut out a lot of text that didn't respond to my post]

...but maybe you're right. Maybe the 360 is so much more important to gaming, that the RRoD was a bigger problem in the videogame industry than was PC piracy.

If console gaming died tomorrow, what do you think would happen to the core games being developed? Increase in amount, or decrease?

If PC gaming died tomorrow, how would it affect consoles?

/bow

I'm glad we agree on some points.  Let my clarify the ones you responded to.

A.  You previous post: "Dependability is a common issue with all hardware, and gives no advantage to either side. However, consoles do come with warranties, and built PCs do not." You never really said what the problem with dependability is.  If you are referring to how all hardware eventually fails, well yea that's true.  What I think of a dependability problem are consoles failing within 2-3 years.  That is horrible dependability.  The RROD from the XBOX360 is caused by heat issues.  I can easily increase the ventilation of my PC.

I guess you are saying build computers as a whole do not have warranties.  My motherboard is built by ASUS.  It has amazing dependability, warranty and customer support.  I remember one time that I flashed my ROM chip incorrectly and turned my computer into an expensive paperweight.  I called ASUS, and even though my motherboard was no longer under warranty, they sent me a new ROM chip already flashed.  I think the only gaming company that has comparable customer support may be Nintendo.

Back to Dependability is a issue because all hardware fails eventually.  You didn't refute my point that parts are easier to obtain and replace in a PC.

Better (according to Webster): improved in accuracy or performance.

Subjective (according to Webster): characteristic of or belonging to reality as perceived rather than as independent of mind.

According to Webster, KB/M is 'better'.

B.  I'll give you that one.  Maybe if someone is super dedicated and finds several "specials" or "sales" they can build it cheaper.

If computers do cost more, at least they do more.  I prefer to dual boot a gaming computer into linux so I can play games on windows, and do everything else on linux.  Keeps viruses off of my Windows system.

C.  Maybe I can explain my point better with an analogy.  Are manual transmission cars better than automatic cars, or is it just a matter of preference?  Manual transmission cars 1) Get better gas mileage 2) Give you better control over the car 3) has less maintenance on the transmission 4) transmission lasts longer.  Automatic transmission cars 1) are easier and more convenient to drive.

I already said in my previous post that a mouse is more accurate than motion controls or a joystick (positional based vs. velocity based).  That is a fact.  If you prefer joystick or motion controls over the mouse/keyboard, I won't fault you for it.  You never did disprove that a mouse is more accurate, you just keep saying it cannot be proven.

"If PC gaming died tomorrow, how would it affect consoles?"

PC pushes forward the graphics technology industry the same way Nascar pushed forward the automobile industry.  If PC gaming died tomorrow, advances in video games would come much slower.

"Wow, I've had a lot of great responses to my last post, and honestly, I didn't think that you guys stood a chance. I know that shio spends his existance arguing this, but I'm really quite convincing on this subject, and the fact that you were able to form decent argument has vastly impressed me."

Thanks.  I appreciate someone who likes a good debate.

@twesterm

"So, no, you didn't just shoot down my 3 reasons.  Stop assuming everyone has the same hard on for PC gaming you have.  I hate PC gaming and your endless ranting about how great it is isn't going to change that just like my endless ranting about console gaming will never change your mind."

Seriously?  You "hate" PC gaming.  Those are some strong words.  I don't even hate the xbox360, even though I would never buy one.

Compared to gaming on anything else, yes, I generally hate PC gaming for the reasons I've listed over and over again.

I'm not saying you or anyone else should hate PC gaming, it's cool that you like it for whatever reason, I just generally hate it for these reasons:

  • Upgrading your PC: I bought a "gaming laptop" last year that was pretty much top of the line.  It barely runs new games and runs hot as Hell.  Granted, yes, I bought a laptop and that's my own dumb fault, but I also use computers for things besides gaming and a laptop made more sense.
  • Not gaming on my awesome TV: lugging my computer from my office (have to go through the garage and up the stairs) or just fiddling with wires isn't fun and not something I like to do.  Even just leaving the wires ready isn't a good option because I use all my HDMI inputs and the wife doesn't like seeing wires hanging everywhere.  This just isn't a good option for me.
  • Couch vs. Office chair: I sit in an office chair all day long.  I don't want to come home and relax in an office chair to play games, I want to relax on my comfy couch.
  • PC Game Hassle: Even when I use Steam, there's still hassle.  When I don't use Steam, there's even more hassle.  As an added detriment, I'm left handed.  That means if I use the keyboard (which I'm probably going to do with a PC game) I have to remap every control.  I don't like going through 15 minutes of fiddling with settings before starting my game.  Then there's having to fiddle with the settings and tweaks in order to make the game run just right for your system.  Every game has a guide for getting it to run just right versus a game that automatically runs just right.  The most I have to fiddle with on console games is the darkness setting.
  • Sometimes PC games just don't work: Even with Steam games, I can have trouble getting PC games to work, don't know what else to say about that.
  • Patches/Installs:  Luckily Steam takes care a lot of this trouble but for any game that isn't on Steam it's still a giant pain in the ass.
  • DRM: Again, for every non-Steam game this can be a deal breaker.  I tried for hours to get KotorII to work and just couldn't because the DRM didn't like my DVD Burner.  The only alternative I had was to go look for a crack and hope it didn't have a virus.
  • PC Games are undersupported: PC games have no quality control like 360/PS3/Wii games have so it's pretty common that they are released buggy as all Hell.  These problems can be fixed quickly but would I rather have a 360 game working day one or a PC game working week two?

And there are advantages to PC games, I recognize that, just the disadvantages are far too great to bother with PC gaming.  These are my personal gripes for not liking PC gaming and Shio or whoever can come back and tell me that my opinions are wrong and I really don't care.  I hate PC gaming because I've had bad luck with it and console gaming is just so much better for me.