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Forums - Gaming - David Jaffe hates his customers. Does not want used game sales to continue

Cactus said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
ssj12 said:
 

Why did the customer buy a game they should have known they wouldn;t like? If they hate FPSs why would they buy an FPS all becasue its hyped, they should know they hate the genre. So its not the publishers fault that the customer was an idiot and bought into hype from the media and their friends who like the genre. It is completely the customer's idiocy.

Two things.

A. The vast majority of this topic isn't about returning games you've accidently purchased. That should be illegal. Amazon doesn't even allow it(and I didn't think Walmart did either, anymore). It's about reselling games you've beaten, which you should be allowed to do, imo. Especially with the high prices for retail games. This is not the PC market. Sony is NOT steam, and Jaffe would keep his shit full price for eternity, if he could, knowing his ego.

B. Even I've bought a few games that I regretted. It happens sometimes, no matter how much research you do. I didn't return them, but I did resell them. Why should I have 5000 dollars worth of games on my shelf, when the gaming industry is charging 60 dollars a pop, and I know I'll never play them again. You don't get a good return for your investment on most games. Period. I can't justify paying 20 dollars an hour to play a videogame. It's rediculious, and now Activision wants to raise it. Used games are good for the industry, and I doubt DLC will take over as quickly as Jaffe seems to hope.

Actually, he's explicitly said numerous times that game prices are currently way too high.

Well, again, not the biggest Jaffe fan here. Don't exactly read his blogs. That said, a broken clock is right twice a day.

While the used market could dissappear, however, I doubt prices on new games would drop.

It's called "throwing you a bone."



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

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MontanaHatchet said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
MontanaHatchet said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
MontanaHatchet said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
MontanaHatchet said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
ssj12 said:

People don't return fantastic products Montana, a product that they love and does everything that they want doesn't get returned.  Greatness is subjective, you may find Mario Galaxy awesome, my mom probably wouldn't, she'd probably think its stupid, also why wasn't the person who didn't like shooters propely exposed to the game before they bought it?  Why weren't they educated on the game fully before buying, if they had been they wouldn't have bought it in the first place, see that's what you seem to be missing the publishers aren't educating people properly, so the argument that they shouldn't be punsihed for people's ignornace is falwed, if they did their job the consumers would not be ignorant.

People return fantastic products all the time. Like you said, quality is subjective. Just because one person doesn't like it, doesn't make it a bad product. A game like Super Mario Galaxy is still amazing no matter what your mom thinks about it. Why should Nintendo be punished because some people don't like it? Nintendo should be punished for releasing a fantastic product? Again, they can't appeal to everyone. They shouldn't lose money because of that. If we all lived in a perfect world and consumers were never ignorant, than we wouldn't have this problem in the first place. Used games wouldn't exist. I know you probably don't know this (since you're a Nintendo fan), but there are these things called downloadable demos. There are demos you can download from online stores, demos you can play in stores, and demos you can buy with other games. Developers and publishers send review copies to be reviewed so you get a general idea of the game's quality. Publishers put brief descriptions of the gameplay and general workings of the game on the back of the box. What more do you what them to do? Your argument is flawed, because you believe developers should be punished no matter what a game is like. Look, if a person buy a games and returns it, the developer has already been punished. That person won't be buying any more of their products (most likely). By putting the game up for used, the developer loses another sale, which is just rubbing salt on the wound. That's what is not fair.

Its completely fair, the fact that my mom doesn't like it proves that its not a fantastic product, for her, its a fantastic product for you maybe.  Actually Nintendo realizes its their failure when they can't get people to keep games, Iwata already discussed this in an interview, one of the reasons Nintendo is doing so well, while people like Jaffe whine, they get it, its their job to make sure that people know what games they want and that the games continue to satisfy so no one sells it.  Demos are fine, but most people don't know how to get demos, so just having demos deson't educate consumers, you have to get them into the hands of the consumers and let them play, its a failure of the publisher and devs when the people aren't educated on the agmes, its a failure when they don't enjoy their experience or get bored after a time, its perfectly fair that they don't make any extra revenue, if they succeeded in educating the consumers and kept the consumers hooked the used games market would dry up.



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

ZenfoldorVGI said:
Cactus said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:

And that fact alone makes all of your other (sometimes rational) arguments invalid in my mind.

That's why I let you know. Not the biggest Jaffe fan here.

That said, most people in this thread are for or against jaffe in one way or another, they just aren't honest enough to tell you about it.

I'm probably slightly biased towards him, I'm not afraid to admit it. I realize that sometimes he goes too far, or says something stupid, but I have to say that he is probably the most misquoted person in the gaming industry. I would be willing to bet that a suprisingly large amount of people hate him for things that he never even said.



It's also of note, that first party Nintendo titles keep a lot of their value, even used. Most games don't. I think it's because people keep them, but I have no evidence of that, it's just an opinion.



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

ZenfoldorVGI said:
ssj12 said:
 

Why did the customer buy a game they should have known they wouldn;t like? If they hate FPSs why would they buy an FPS all becasue its hyped, they should know they hate the genre. So its not the publishers fault that the customer was an idiot and bought into hype from the media and their friends who like the genre. It is completely the customer's idiocy.

Two things.

A. The vast majority of this topic isn't about returning games you've accidently purchased. That should be illegal. Amazon doesn't even allow it(and I didn't think Walmart did either, anymore). It's about reselling games you've beaten, which you should be allowed to do, imo. Especially with the high prices for retail games. This is not the PC market. Sony is NOT steam, and Jaffe would keep his shit full price for eternity, if he could, knowing his ego.

B. Even I've bought a few games that I regretted. It happens sometimes, no matter how much research you do. I didn't return them, but I did resell them. Why should I have 5000 dollars worth of games on my shelf, when the gaming industry is charging 60 dollars a pop, and I know I'll never play them again. You don't get a good return for your investment on most games. Period. I can't justify paying 20 dollars an hour to play a videogame. It's rediculious, and now Activision wants to raise it. Used games are good for the industry, and I doubt DLC will take over as quickly as Jaffe seems to hope.

Used games as an industry wouldnt be bad if companies like Gamestop shared profits with publishers and didn't rip customers off by buying a game for $3 and reselling it for $20. Since Gamestop is in the market of selling video games and video game accessories they should be forced to allow developers to get a piece of the pie.

If you choice to sell your old games on Ebay or to other people on the street or even a pawn shop thats all fine and dandy because you yourself isn't attempting to create a market out used games. Your just trying to get rid of old games.



PC gaming is better than console gaming. Always.     We are Anonymous, We are Legion    Kick-ass interview   Great Flash Series Here    Anime Ratings     Make and Play Please
Amazing discussion about being wrong
Official VGChartz Folding@Home Team #109453
 
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Cactus said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
Cactus said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:

And that fact alone makes all of your other (sometimes rational) arguments invalid in my mind.

That's why I let you know. Not the biggest Jaffe fan here.

That said, most people in this thread are for or against jaffe in one way or another, they just aren't honest enough to tell you about it.

I'm probably slightly biased towards him, I'm not afraid to admit it. I realize that sometimes he goes too far, or says something stupid, but I have to say that he is probably the most misquoted person in the gaming industry. I would be willing to bet that a suprisingly large amount of people hate him for things that he never even said.

I've seen several of his videoblogs......

Anyway, if he didn't run his mouth so much, less people would despise him. CliffyB, another loudmouthed industry developer, is much less despised than Jaffe, despite talking just as much in a douche manner. I think it's because he largely stays away from politics, gaming and otherwise.

Plus, unlike Cliffy, Jaffe has a temper to go along with his ego, and thus, ends up showing his ass a lot.



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

ZenfoldorVGI said:
It's also of note, that first party Nintendo titles keep a lot of their value, even used. Most games don't. I think it's because people keep them, but I have no evidence of that, it's just an opinion.

I remember that I searched for a used copy of Melee for over a year and couldn't find one, eventually had to pay full price for a copy



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

ssj12 said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
ssj12 said:
 

Why did the customer buy a game they should have known they wouldn;t like? If they hate FPSs why would they buy an FPS all becasue its hyped, they should know they hate the genre. So its not the publishers fault that the customer was an idiot and bought into hype from the media and their friends who like the genre. It is completely the customer's idiocy.

Two things.

A. The vast majority of this topic isn't about returning games you've accidently purchased. That should be illegal. Amazon doesn't even allow it(and I didn't think Walmart did either, anymore). It's about reselling games you've beaten, which you should be allowed to do, imo. Especially with the high prices for retail games. This is not the PC market. Sony is NOT steam, and Jaffe would keep his shit full price for eternity, if he could, knowing his ego.

B. Even I've bought a few games that I regretted. It happens sometimes, no matter how much research you do. I didn't return them, but I did resell them. Why should I have 5000 dollars worth of games on my shelf, when the gaming industry is charging 60 dollars a pop, and I know I'll never play them again. You don't get a good return for your investment on most games. Period. I can't justify paying 20 dollars an hour to play a videogame. It's rediculious, and now Activision wants to raise it. Used games are good for the industry, and I doubt DLC will take over as quickly as Jaffe seems to hope.

Used games as an industry wouldnt be bad if companies like Gamestop shared profits with publishers and didn't rip customers off by buying a game for $3 and reselling it for $20. Since Gamestop is in the market of selling video games and video game accessories they should be forced to allow developers to get a piece of the pie.

If you choice to sell your old games on Ebay or to other people on the street or even a pawn shop thats all fine and dandy because you yourself isn't attempting to create a market out used games. Your just trying to get rid of old games.

That's fair.

To be honest, the only thing I hate more than Jaffe is Gamestop. It just pisses me off that Jaffe keeps trying to get everyone on the bandwagon to destroy the used games industry asap, and I think he uses gamestop as a scapegoat. He wants download only, and that's what I think his true motivations are for attacking gamestop(which does far more appauling bullshit than not cutting in publishers, like opening all "new" games before sale, and allowing employees to take them home and "test" them).

I fucking hate Gamestop.



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

Avinash_Tyagi said:
MontanaHatchet said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
MontanaHatchet said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
MontanaHatchet said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
MontanaHatchet said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
ssj12 said:

People don't return fantastic products Montana, a product that they love and does everything that they want doesn't get returned.  Greatness is subjective, you may find Mario Galaxy awesome, my mom probably wouldn't, she'd probably think its stupid, also why wasn't the person who didn't like shooters propely exposed to the game before they bought it?  Why weren't they educated on the game fully before buying, if they had been they wouldn't have bought it in the first place, see that's what you seem to be missing the publishers aren't educating people properly, so the argument that they shouldn't be punsihed for people's ignornace is falwed, if they did their job the consumers would not be ignorant.

People return fantastic products all the time. Like you said, quality is subjective. Just because one person doesn't like it, doesn't make it a bad product. A game like Super Mario Galaxy is still amazing no matter what your mom thinks about it. Why should Nintendo be punished because some people don't like it? Nintendo should be punished for releasing a fantastic product? Again, they can't appeal to everyone. They shouldn't lose money because of that. If we all lived in a perfect world and consumers were never ignorant, than we wouldn't have this problem in the first place. Used games wouldn't exist. I know you probably don't know this (since you're a Nintendo fan), but there are these things called downloadable demos. There are demos you can download from online stores, demos you can play in stores, and demos you can buy with other games. Developers and publishers send review copies to be reviewed so you get a general idea of the game's quality. Publishers put brief descriptions of the gameplay and general workings of the game on the back of the box. What more do you what them to do? Your argument is flawed, because you believe developers should be punished no matter what a game is like. Look, if a person buy a games and returns it, the developer has already been punished. That person won't be buying any more of their products (most likely). By putting the game up for used, the developer loses another sale, which is just rubbing salt on the wound. That's what is not fair.

Its completely fair, the fact that my mom doesn't like it proves that its not a fantastic product, for her, its a fantastic product for you maybe.  Actually Nintendo realizes its their failure when they can't get people to keep games, Iwata already discussed this in an interview, one of the reasons Nintendo is doing so well, while people like Jaffe whine, they get it, its their job to make sure that people know what games they want and that the games continue to satisfy so no one sells it.  Demos are fine, but most people don't know how to get demos, so just having demos deson't educate consumers, you have to get them into the hands of the consumers and let them play, its a failure of the publisher and devs when the people aren't educated on the agmes, its a failure when they don't enjoy their experience or get bored after a time, its perfectly fair that they don't make any extra revenue, if they succeeded in educating the consumers and kept the consumers hooked the used games market would dry up.

How is it a developer or publisher's fault? Even if someone doesn't have the internet to research a game there are game magazines that cover games on all platforms.

 

Publishers exist to advertise and distribute products

Developers exist to make the products

Media exists to cover and release information on products created by developers and published by publishers

Retailers sell the products made by developers and publishers

Selling = supplying customers with information to better judge their purchases

 

I cannot reiterate this enough. Each part has its onlt specific roles to play. While publishers advertise their games, it is the media's job to take the information released and distribute it to the masses. Customers then can ressearch products online, reading up on products in magazines, or through taking with salesmen about the products. It is retailers, more specifically salesmen's, jobs to be the final informant for the customers. They control what content is bought by customers. We try to prevent M rated games being played by minors, we try to prevent customers from buying games they wil not like, and we try to info customers of as much information on a selected product as we can.



PC gaming is better than console gaming. Always.     We are Anonymous, We are Legion    Kick-ass interview   Great Flash Series Here    Anime Ratings     Make and Play Please
Amazing discussion about being wrong
Official VGChartz Folding@Home Team #109453
 

That's why we need to stick with physical media, once it goes online you lose the ability to trade, borrow, and sell.