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Forums - Gaming Discussion - David Jaffe hates his customers. Does not want used game sales to continue

How dare he want to make a profit?



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Yeah i hate used games , i prefer new.



 

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MontanaHatchet said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
MontanaHatchet said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
MontanaHatchet said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
ssj12 said:
I hate the entire idea of used games. It takes revenue away from developers and publishers.


No it doesn't, they didn't earn that revenue or sales, if the game was worthy of those revenues people would only buy new, not used, because there would be no used copies of the games

Not great logic. Let me give you an example. I remember reading an old news story where a man returned his copy of Final Fantasy 7, not because it was a bad game, but because he didn't know he'd have to do any reading. People could return games for all other sorts of reasons. Maybe they got suckered into the hype and just didn't like the game or its genre. Regardless of the reason, the developers shouldn't be punished for consumers.


Actually they should, the fact that the consumer got suckered, or felt that the game had too much text, or whatever proves that the consumer was not satisfied with their experience, as a result the publisher hasn't earned any further revenue on the game

Yeah, but how is that the developer's fault? The developer shouldn't be punished if someone dislikes a game for a stupid reason. And you were arguing that a game isn't "worthy" of the money, but I'm explaining how the game can be very good but still be returned.


Because for the consumer who returned the game it wasn't good, see quality is subjective, you may like modern god shock 5: Snakes vengeance, may think its the greatest game ever and GOTY, but another person may think its utter garbage, you may keep the game, but the other person will sell it, showing that for them it was not a good game, why should the dev et extra money for failing a consumer.  That's like a CEO getting a golden parachute after they drive their company to bankruptcy, you don't reward failure.

So, wait a second. It's a developer's fault that they made a fantastic game, but someone bought it when it didn't appeal to them? You'e arguing that the developer somehow failed and should be punished, even if they make a fantastic product, because of what some consumers think. You can't please everyone, and you certainly can't stop people from buying your products, but that doesn't mean publishers and developers should be chastised for it. Let's take Nintendo, who is in my opinion, the best developer in the industry. If they put out a great game like Twilight Princess or Super Mario Galaxy, should they suffer from used game sales? Those are two incredible games, but some consumers might not like them. It's not a failure because Nintendo failed to appeal to a person they don't even know. That's just a consumer who should buy some other game. You may have someone that has never played a shooter before. They buy a shooter, decide that it isn't the genre for them, and return it for used sale. Then, a devoted shooter fan goes to the store, and buys the used copy. You're basically arguing that a developer failed in some way if they didn't appeal every last person who bought their product, even though they have no control of that. They can't please everyone, but they can release amazing products. And they shouldn't be punished for that.

People don't return fantastic products Montana, a product that they love and does everything that they want doesn't get returned.  Greatness is subjective, you may find Mario Galaxy awesome, my mom probably wouldn't, she'd probably think its stupid, also why wasn't the person who didn't like shooters propely exposed to the game before they bought it?  Why weren't they educated on the game fully before buying, if they had been they wouldn't have bought it in the first place, see that's what you seem to be missing the publishers aren't educating people properly, so the argument that they shouldn't be punsihed for people's ignornace is falwed, if they did their job the consumers would not be ignorant.



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

Avinash_Tyagi said:
ssj12 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
ssj12 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
MontanaHatchet said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
ssj12 said:
I hate the entire idea of used games. It takes revenue away from developers and publishers.


No it doesn't, they didn't earn that revenue or sales, if the game was worthy of those revenues people would only buy new, not used, because there would be no used copies of the games

Not great logic. Let me give you an example. I remember reading an old news story where a man returned his copy of Final Fantasy 7, not because it was a bad game, but because he didn't know he'd have to do any reading. People could return games for all other sorts of reasons. Maybe they got suckered into the hype and just didn't like the game or its genre. Regardless of the reason, the developers shouldn't be punished for consumers.


Actually they should, the fact that the consumer got suckered, or felt that the game had too much text, or whatever proves that the consumer was not satisfied with their experience, as a result the publisher hasn't earned any further revenue on the game

So basically used games = piracy for publishers. If a customer doesn't like a game, they can return it, take money away from the publisher, then the store can resell it used and not give the publosher money from the used game sale all because a customer was stupid and dint research their purchase before hand. I guess I am starting to believe my college textbooks that consumers = idiots.


No, the consumer is always right

they are only right because a salesmen's job is to hold their hand and sell a product that the customer wants. even if said customer hates FPSs, if they say the want the game even after a salesmen pitchs the product to make sure its correct for the customer, we have no right to not sell the game to them under the belief they will hate the game. So it falls onto the customer's wants to make their purchase what they want, its just that the product they select might not be right because of their choice and lack of understanding or common sense in this instance.

Ah, but hype doesn't educate consumers, it just generates demand, see the publishers aren't educating consumers on what content is in a game, which is why people buy many games on hype rather than on actually playing and loving it.

While hype is meant to generate demand, its up to the customer to research the product to make sure it is something they would enjoy. if they are just buying based on hype from multiple sources, including a TV advertisement showing that the game's genre is clearly a genre they the customer doesnt like, it shows they lack common sense and deserve to deal with the fact the purchased something they didn't like.



PC gaming is better than console gaming. Always.     We are Anonymous, We are Legion    Kick-ass interview   Great Flash Series Here    Anime Ratings     Make and Play Please
Amazing discussion about being wrong
Official VGChartz Folding@Home Team #109453
 
Torillian said:
The assumption that people only sell games that they didn't enjoy is an oversimplification of the issue in order to put blame on the developers. People sell games for all kinds of reasons, and many just sell them as a matter of course because they can and it helps them buy the next one. Every used game is not a failure on the parts of the developer.

Actually it is, people don't sell games they still play and love



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

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ssj12 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
ssj12 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
ssj12 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
MontanaHatchet said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
ssj12 said:
I hate the entire idea of used games. It takes revenue away from developers and publishers.


No it doesn't, they didn't earn that revenue or sales, if the game was worthy of those revenues people would only buy new, not used, because there would be no used copies of the games

Not great logic. Let me give you an example. I remember reading an old news story where a man returned his copy of Final Fantasy 7, not because it was a bad game, but because he didn't know he'd have to do any reading. People could return games for all other sorts of reasons. Maybe they got suckered into the hype and just didn't like the game or its genre. Regardless of the reason, the developers shouldn't be punished for consumers.


Actually they should, the fact that the consumer got suckered, or felt that the game had too much text, or whatever proves that the consumer was not satisfied with their experience, as a result the publisher hasn't earned any further revenue on the game

So basically used games = piracy for publishers. If a customer doesn't like a game, they can return it, take money away from the publisher, then the store can resell it used and not give the publosher money from the used game sale all because a customer was stupid and dint research their purchase before hand. I guess I am starting to believe my college textbooks that consumers = idiots.


No, the consumer is always right

they are only right because a salesmen's job is to hold their hand and sell a product that the customer wants. even if said customer hates FPSs, if they say the want the game even after a salesmen pitchs the product to make sure its correct for the customer, we have no right to not sell the game to them under the belief they will hate the game. So it falls onto the customer's wants to make their purchase what they want, its just that the product they select might not be right because of their choice and lack of understanding or common sense in this instance.

Ah, but hype doesn't educate consumers, it just generates demand, see the publishers aren't educating consumers on what content is in a game, which is why people buy many games on hype rather than on actually playing and loving it.

While hype is meant to generate demand, its up to the customer to research the product to make sure it is something they would enjoy. if they are just buying based on hype from multiple sources, including a TV advertisement showing that the game's genre is clearly a genre they the customer doesnt like, it shows they lack common sense and deserve to deal with the fact the purchased something they didn't like.

No its actually up to the company to educate consumers, otherwise they can't compalin when consumers walk away unhappy



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

MontanaHatchet said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
The reason used games exist is because people tire of games, that shows a failure of the developer/publisher, if the games were such that people never got tired of them, they'd never be sold to places like gamestop, and as a result the publishers/devs deserve nothing of the used games sales, jaffe is a fool and proof that malstrom is right, that the "games industry" is diseased and dying. Also switching to all Digital will only drive consumers into the arms of companies that retain phsyical media as an option.

*Rolls eyes*


I agree with this statement



Avinash_Tyagi said:
MontanaHatchet said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
MontanaHatchet said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
MontanaHatchet said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
ssj12 said:
I hate the entire idea of used games. It takes revenue away from developers and publishers.


No it doesn't, they didn't earn that revenue or sales, if the game was worthy of those revenues people would only buy new, not used, because there would be no used copies of the games

Not great logic. Let me give you an example. I remember reading an old news story where a man returned his copy of Final Fantasy 7, not because it was a bad game, but because he didn't know he'd have to do any reading. People could return games for all other sorts of reasons. Maybe they got suckered into the hype and just didn't like the game or its genre. Regardless of the reason, the developers shouldn't be punished for consumers.


Actually they should, the fact that the consumer got suckered, or felt that the game had too much text, or whatever proves that the consumer was not satisfied with their experience, as a result the publisher hasn't earned any further revenue on the game

Yeah, but how is that the developer's fault? The developer shouldn't be punished if someone dislikes a game for a stupid reason. And you were arguing that a game isn't "worthy" of the money, but I'm explaining how the game can be very good but still be returned.


Because for the consumer who returned the game it wasn't good, see quality is subjective, you may like modern god shock 5: Snakes vengeance, may think its the greatest game ever and GOTY, but another person may think its utter garbage, you may keep the game, but the other person will sell it, showing that for them it was not a good game, why should the dev et extra money for failing a consumer.  That's like a CEO getting a golden parachute after they drive their company to bankruptcy, you don't reward failure.

So, wait a second. It's a developer's fault that they made a fantastic game, but someone bought it when it didn't appeal to them? You'e arguing that the developer somehow failed and should be punished, even if they make a fantastic product, because of what some consumers think. You can't please everyone, and you certainly can't stop people from buying your products, but that doesn't mean publishers and developers should be chastised for it. Let's take Nintendo, who is in my opinion, the best developer in the industry. If they put out a great game like Twilight Princess or Super Mario Galaxy, should they suffer from used game sales? Those are two incredible games, but some consumers might not like them. It's not a failure because Nintendo failed to appeal to a person they don't even know. That's just a consumer who should buy some other game. You may have someone that has never played a shooter before. They buy a shooter, decide that it isn't the genre for them, and return it for used sale. Then, a devoted shooter fan goes to the store, and buys the used copy. You're basically arguing that a developer failed in some way if they didn't appeal every last person who bought their product, even though they have no control of that. They can't please everyone, but they can release amazing products. And they shouldn't be punished for that.

People don't return fantastic products Montana, a product that they love and does everything that they want doesn't get returned.  Greatness is subjective, you may find Mario Galaxy awesome, my mom probably wouldn't, she'd probably think its stupid, also why wasn't the person who didn't like shooters propely exposed to the game before they bought it?  Why weren't they educated on the game fully before buying, if they had been they wouldn't have bought it in the first place, see that's what you seem to be missing the publishers aren't educating people properly, so the argument that they shouldn't be punsihed for people's ignornace is falwed, if they did their job the consumers would not be ignorant.

It is NOT the pubisher's job to educate a customer. It is the retailers and specialised media. If a customer does not research a product it is their fault for purchasing a game under the assumption they would like it.

 

edit

 

Publishers exist to advertise and distribute products

Developers exist to make the products

Media exists to cover and release information on products created by developers and published by publishers

Retailers sell the products made by developers and publishers

Selling = supplying customers with information to better judge their purchases.



PC gaming is better than console gaming. Always.     We are Anonymous, We are Legion    Kick-ass interview   Great Flash Series Here    Anime Ratings     Make and Play Please
Amazing discussion about being wrong
Official VGChartz Folding@Home Team #109453
 
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Torillian said:
The assumption that people only sell games that they didn't enjoy is an oversimplification of the issue in order to put blame on the developers. People sell games for all kinds of reasons, and many just sell them as a matter of course because they can and it helps them buy the next one. Every used game is not a failure on the parts of the developer.

Actually it is, people don't sell games they still play and love

Well then you are damning any single player experience that is story driven.  Some games aren't meant to be played forever, they're meant to give you a great experience while you play it.  If people only kept games that they played on a regular basis than I would only have one game and by your logic I only love that one game, but that's not true.  You are setting the bar too high, people don't sell games that they play every day and love, but how many games can you say you've loved this generation?  Developers should not be punished just because they can't get everyone to love their game, who the hell can?



...

ssj12 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
MontanaHatchet said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
MontanaHatchet said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
MontanaHatchet said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
ssj12 said:
I hate the entire idea of used games. It takes revenue away from developers and publishers.


No it doesn't, they didn't earn that revenue or sales, if the game was worthy of those revenues people would only buy new, not used, because there would be no used copies of the games

Not great logic. Let me give you an example. I remember reading an old news story where a man returned his copy of Final Fantasy 7, not because it was a bad game, but because he didn't know he'd have to do any reading. People could return games for all other sorts of reasons. Maybe they got suckered into the hype and just didn't like the game or its genre. Regardless of the reason, the developers shouldn't be punished for consumers.


Actually they should, the fact that the consumer got suckered, or felt that the game had too much text, or whatever proves that the consumer was not satisfied with their experience, as a result the publisher hasn't earned any further revenue on the game

Yeah, but how is that the developer's fault? The developer shouldn't be punished if someone dislikes a game for a stupid reason. And you were arguing that a game isn't "worthy" of the money, but I'm explaining how the game can be very good but still be returned.


Because for the consumer who returned the game it wasn't good, see quality is subjective, you may like modern god shock 5: Snakes vengeance, may think its the greatest game ever and GOTY, but another person may think its utter garbage, you may keep the game, but the other person will sell it, showing that for them it was not a good game, why should the dev et extra money for failing a consumer.  That's like a CEO getting a golden parachute after they drive their company to bankruptcy, you don't reward failure.

So, wait a second. It's a developer's fault that they made a fantastic game, but someone bought it when it didn't appeal to them? You'e arguing that the developer somehow failed and should be punished, even if they make a fantastic product, because of what some consumers think. You can't please everyone, and you certainly can't stop people from buying your products, but that doesn't mean publishers and developers should be chastised for it. Let's take Nintendo, who is in my opinion, the best developer in the industry. If they put out a great game like Twilight Princess or Super Mario Galaxy, should they suffer from used game sales? Those are two incredible games, but some consumers might not like them. It's not a failure because Nintendo failed to appeal to a person they don't even know. That's just a consumer who should buy some other game. You may have someone that has never played a shooter before. They buy a shooter, decide that it isn't the genre for them, and return it for used sale. Then, a devoted shooter fan goes to the store, and buys the used copy. You're basically arguing that a developer failed in some way if they didn't appeal every last person who bought their product, even though they have no control of that. They can't please everyone, but they can release amazing products. And they shouldn't be punished for that.

People don't return fantastic products Montana, a product that they love and does everything that they want doesn't get returned.  Greatness is subjective, you may find Mario Galaxy awesome, my mom probably wouldn't, she'd probably think its stupid, also why wasn't the person who didn't like shooters propely exposed to the game before they bought it?  Why weren't they educated on the game fully before buying, if they had been they wouldn't have bought it in the first place, see that's what you seem to be missing the publishers aren't educating people properly, so the argument that they shouldn't be punsihed for people's ignornace is falwed, if they did their job the consumers would not be ignorant.

It is NOT the pubisher's job to educate a customer. It is the retailers and specialised media. If a customer does not research a product it is their fault for purchasing a game under the assumtion they would like it.

This is a bad buisness move, no its up to the seller to educate, if they care at all for consumer satisfaction



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)