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Forums - Gaming - David Jaffe hates his customers. Does not want used game sales to continue

Pyro as Bill said:
Kantor said:
Yeah, I think David Jaffe should die because he wants money from every sale of a game he spent loads of time and money developing. What an asshole!

Film and music artists don't seem to mind. Authors don't seem to have a problem with it. I can't think of any manufacturers that dislike it either.

Stupid 'industry' deserves to die.


Do you actually believe what you said?



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Here's my take:

Wholesale costs on games and machines are way too high. Stores like Walmart and Gamespot sell those games for 5 dollars more than they pay for them. Thing is, they are stuck with the sucky games, and it's pretty much an impossibility to make money off of the used market, due to the high costs of development, and/or publishers standards, which seem unfair to retailers.

Of course, publishers want to cut out retailers. They want to force people to pay full price for their games, and they want to sell more copies.

It's not greed, that makes a public entity want to make more profit at the expense of an industry designed to help them distribute their merchandise.

However, it is greed when a single person wants to do so, at the expense of the consumers, just to spite said distributor.

Jaffe is a huge douche, and he always will be. There is no denying that.

In this case, he just so happens to have turned his douchatude towards your wallet, and can't wait until you have to shell out full price for his block-puzzle DMC clones or his Mario Kart ripoffs.

I wouldn't take a game with his name on it, if it had a 20 dollar bill inside the case.

I've always said that though, this is nothing new for me.



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

Avinash_Tyagi said:
ssj12 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
MontanaHatchet said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
MontanaHatchet said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
MontanaHatchet said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
ssj12 said:
I hate the entire idea of used games. It takes revenue away from developers and publishers.


No it doesn't, they didn't earn that revenue or sales, if the game was worthy of those revenues people would only buy new, not used, because there would be no used copies of the games

Not great logic. Let me give you an example. I remember reading an old news story where a man returned his copy of Final Fantasy 7, not because it was a bad game, but because he didn't know he'd have to do any reading. People could return games for all other sorts of reasons. Maybe they got suckered into the hype and just didn't like the game or its genre. Regardless of the reason, the developers shouldn't be punished for consumers.


Actually they should, the fact that the consumer got suckered, or felt that the game had too much text, or whatever proves that the consumer was not satisfied with their experience, as a result the publisher hasn't earned any further revenue on the game

Yeah, but how is that the developer's fault? The developer shouldn't be punished if someone dislikes a game for a stupid reason. And you were arguing that a game isn't "worthy" of the money, but I'm explaining how the game can be very good but still be returned.


Because for the consumer who returned the game it wasn't good, see quality is subjective, you may like modern god shock 5: Snakes vengeance, may think its the greatest game ever and GOTY, but another person may think its utter garbage, you may keep the game, but the other person will sell it, showing that for them it was not a good game, why should the dev et extra money for failing a consumer.  That's like a CEO getting a golden parachute after they drive their company to bankruptcy, you don't reward failure.

So, wait a second. It's a developer's fault that they made a fantastic game, but someone bought it when it didn't appeal to them? You'e arguing that the developer somehow failed and should be punished, even if they make a fantastic product, because of what some consumers think. You can't please everyone, and you certainly can't stop people from buying your products, but that doesn't mean publishers and developers should be chastised for it. Let's take Nintendo, who is in my opinion, the best developer in the industry. If they put out a great game like Twilight Princess or Super Mario Galaxy, should they suffer from used game sales? Those are two incredible games, but some consumers might not like them. It's not a failure because Nintendo failed to appeal to a person they don't even know. That's just a consumer who should buy some other game. You may have someone that has never played a shooter before. They buy a shooter, decide that it isn't the genre for them, and return it for used sale. Then, a devoted shooter fan goes to the store, and buys the used copy. You're basically arguing that a developer failed in some way if they didn't appeal every last person who bought their product, even though they have no control of that. They can't please everyone, but they can release amazing products. And they shouldn't be punished for that.

People don't return fantastic products Montana, a product that they love and does everything that they want doesn't get returned.  Greatness is subjective, you may find Mario Galaxy awesome, my mom probably wouldn't, she'd probably think its stupid, also why wasn't the person who didn't like shooters propely exposed to the game before they bought it?  Why weren't they educated on the game fully before buying, if they had been they wouldn't have bought it in the first place, see that's what you seem to be missing the publishers aren't educating people properly, so the argument that they shouldn't be punsihed for people's ignornace is falwed, if they did their job the consumers would not be ignorant.

It is NOT the pubisher's job to educate a customer. It is the retailers and specialised media. If a customer does not research a product it is their fault for purchasing a game under the assumtion they would like it.

This is a bad buisness move, no its up to the seller to educate, if they care at all for consumer satisfaction

Look at my edit to the last post. It is not poor business. It is proper business having specific sectors of the industry do what they are supposed to do.



PC gaming is better than console gaming. Always.     We are Anonymous, We are Legion    Kick-ass interview   Great Flash Series Here    Anime Ratings     Make and Play Please
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Torillian said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Torillian said:
The assumption that people only sell games that they didn't enjoy is an oversimplification of the issue in order to put blame on the developers. People sell games for all kinds of reasons, and many just sell them as a matter of course because they can and it helps them buy the next one. Every used game is not a failure on the parts of the developer.

Actually it is, people don't sell games they still play and love

Well then you are damning any single player experience that is story driven.  Some games aren't meant to be played forever, they're meant to give you a great experience while you play it.  If people only kept games that they played on a regular basis than I would only have one game and by your logic I only love that one game, but that's not true.  You are setting the bar too high, people don't sell games that they play every day and love, but how many games can you say you've loved this generation?  Developers should not be punished just because they can't get everyone to love their game, who the hell can?

Ah, but that is the fault of the publisher, they can continue to add things to the game to make them playable, more maps mission, etc.



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

Avinash_Tyagi said:
MontanaHatchet said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
MontanaHatchet said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
MontanaHatchet said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
ssj12 said:
I hate the entire idea of used games. It takes revenue away from developers and publishers.


No it doesn't, they didn't earn that revenue or sales, if the game was worthy of those revenues people would only buy new, not used, because there would be no used copies of the games

Not great logic. Let me give you an example. I remember reading an old news story where a man returned his copy of Final Fantasy 7, not because it was a bad game, but because he didn't know he'd have to do any reading. People could return games for all other sorts of reasons. Maybe they got suckered into the hype and just didn't like the game or its genre. Regardless of the reason, the developers shouldn't be punished for consumers.


Actually they should, the fact that the consumer got suckered, or felt that the game had too much text, or whatever proves that the consumer was not satisfied with their experience, as a result the publisher hasn't earned any further revenue on the game

Yeah, but how is that the developer's fault? The developer shouldn't be punished if someone dislikes a game for a stupid reason. And you were arguing that a game isn't "worthy" of the money, but I'm explaining how the game can be very good but still be returned.


Because for the consumer who returned the game it wasn't good, see quality is subjective, you may like modern god shock 5: Snakes vengeance, may think its the greatest game ever and GOTY, but another person may think its utter garbage, you may keep the game, but the other person will sell it, showing that for them it was not a good game, why should the dev et extra money for failing a consumer.  That's like a CEO getting a golden parachute after they drive their company to bankruptcy, you don't reward failure.

So, wait a second. It's a developer's fault that they made a fantastic game, but someone bought it when it didn't appeal to them? You'e arguing that the developer somehow failed and should be punished, even if they make a fantastic product, because of what some consumers think. You can't please everyone, and you certainly can't stop people from buying your products, but that doesn't mean publishers and developers should be chastised for it. Let's take Nintendo, who is in my opinion, the best developer in the industry. If they put out a great game like Twilight Princess or Super Mario Galaxy, should they suffer from used game sales? Those are two incredible games, but some consumers might not like them. It's not a failure because Nintendo failed to appeal to a person they don't even know. That's just a consumer who should buy some other game. You may have someone that has never played a shooter before. They buy a shooter, decide that it isn't the genre for them, and return it for used sale. Then, a devoted shooter fan goes to the store, and buys the used copy. You're basically arguing that a developer failed in some way if they didn't appeal every last person who bought their product, even though they have no control of that. They can't please everyone, but they can release amazing products. And they shouldn't be punished for that.

People don't return fantastic products Montana, a product that they love and does everything that they want doesn't get returned.  Greatness is subjective, you may find Mario Galaxy awesome, my mom probably wouldn't, she'd probably think its stupid, also why wasn't the person who didn't like shooters propely exposed to the game before they bought it?  Why weren't they educated on the game fully before buying, if they had been they wouldn't have bought it in the first place, see that's what you seem to be missing the publishers aren't educating people properly, so the argument that they shouldn't be punsihed for people's ignornace is falwed, if they did their job the consumers would not be ignorant.

People return fantastic products all the time. Like you said, quality is subjective. Just because one person doesn't like it, doesn't make it a bad product. A game like Super Mario Galaxy is still amazing no matter what your mom thinks about it. Why should Nintendo be punished because some people don't like it? Nintendo should be punished for releasing a fantastic product? Again, they can't appeal to everyone. They shouldn't lose money because of that. If we all lived in a perfect world and consumers were never ignorant, than we wouldn't have this problem in the first place. Used games wouldn't exist. I know you probably don't know this (since you're a Nintendo fan), but there are these things called downloadable demos. There are demos you can download from online stores, demos you can play in stores, and demos you can buy with other games. Developers and publishers send review copies to be reviewed so you get a general idea of the game's quality. Publishers put brief descriptions of the gameplay and general workings of the game on the back of the box. What more do you what them to do? Your argument is flawed, because you believe developers should be punished no matter what a game is like. Look, if a person buy a games and returns it, the developer has already been punished. That person won't be buying any more of their products (most likely). By putting the game up for used, the developer loses another sale, which is just rubbing salt on the wound. That's what is not fair.



 

 

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ssj12 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
ssj12 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
MontanaHatchet said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
MontanaHatchet said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
MontanaHatchet said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
ssj12 said:
I hate the entire idea of used games. It takes revenue away from developers and publishers.


No it doesn't, they didn't earn that revenue or sales, if the game was worthy of those revenues people would only buy new, not used, because there would be no used copies of the games

Not great logic. Let me give you an example. I remember reading an old news story where a man returned his copy of Final Fantasy 7, not because it was a bad game, but because he didn't know he'd have to do any reading. People could return games for all other sorts of reasons. Maybe they got suckered into the hype and just didn't like the game or its genre. Regardless of the reason, the developers shouldn't be punished for consumers.


Actually they should, the fact that the consumer got suckered, or felt that the game had too much text, or whatever proves that the consumer was not satisfied with their experience, as a result the publisher hasn't earned any further revenue on the game

Yeah, but how is that the developer's fault? The developer shouldn't be punished if someone dislikes a game for a stupid reason. And you were arguing that a game isn't "worthy" of the money, but I'm explaining how the game can be very good but still be returned.


Because for the consumer who returned the game it wasn't good, see quality is subjective, you may like modern god shock 5: Snakes vengeance, may think its the greatest game ever and GOTY, but another person may think its utter garbage, you may keep the game, but the other person will sell it, showing that for them it was not a good game, why should the dev et extra money for failing a consumer.  That's like a CEO getting a golden parachute after they drive their company to bankruptcy, you don't reward failure.

So, wait a second. It's a developer's fault that they made a fantastic game, but someone bought it when it didn't appeal to them? You'e arguing that the developer somehow failed and should be punished, even if they make a fantastic product, because of what some consumers think. You can't please everyone, and you certainly can't stop people from buying your products, but that doesn't mean publishers and developers should be chastised for it. Let's take Nintendo, who is in my opinion, the best developer in the industry. If they put out a great game like Twilight Princess or Super Mario Galaxy, should they suffer from used game sales? Those are two incredible games, but some consumers might not like them. It's not a failure because Nintendo failed to appeal to a person they don't even know. That's just a consumer who should buy some other game. You may have someone that has never played a shooter before. They buy a shooter, decide that it isn't the genre for them, and return it for used sale. Then, a devoted shooter fan goes to the store, and buys the used copy. You're basically arguing that a developer failed in some way if they didn't appeal every last person who bought their product, even though they have no control of that. They can't please everyone, but they can release amazing products. And they shouldn't be punished for that.

People don't return fantastic products Montana, a product that they love and does everything that they want doesn't get returned.  Greatness is subjective, you may find Mario Galaxy awesome, my mom probably wouldn't, she'd probably think its stupid, also why wasn't the person who didn't like shooters propely exposed to the game before they bought it?  Why weren't they educated on the game fully before buying, if they had been they wouldn't have bought it in the first place, see that's what you seem to be missing the publishers aren't educating people properly, so the argument that they shouldn't be punsihed for people's ignornace is falwed, if they did their job the consumers would not be ignorant.

It is NOT the pubisher's job to educate a customer. It is the retailers and specialised media. If a customer does not research a product it is their fault for purchasing a game under the assumtion they would like it.

This is a bad buisness move, no its up to the seller to educate, if they care at all for consumer satisfaction

Look at my edit to the last post. It is not poor business. It is proper business having specific sectors of the industry do what they are supposed to do.

but they aren't doing what they are supposed to, which is why people are selling their games



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

ZenfoldorVGI said:
Here's my take:

Wholesale costs on games and machines are way too high. Stores like Walmart and Gamespot sell those games for 5 dollars more than they pay for them. Thing is, they are stuck with the sucky games, and it's pretty much an impossibility to make money off of the used market, due to the high costs of development, and/or publishers standards, which seem unfair to retailers.

Of course, publishers want to cut out retailers. They want to force people to pay full price for their games, and they want to sell more copies.

It's not greed, that makes a public entity want to make more profit at the expense of an industry designed to help them distribute their merchandise.

However, it is greed when a single person wants to do so, at the expense of the consumers, just to spite said distributor.

Jaffe is a huge douche, and he always will be. There is no denying that.

In this case, he just so happens to have turned his douchatude towards your wallet, and can't wait until you have to shell out full price for his block-puzzle DMC clones or his Mario Kart ripoffs.

I wouldn't take a game with his name on it, if it had a 20 dollar bill inside the case.

I've always said that though, this is nothing new for me.

And that fact alone makes all of your other (sometimes rational) arguments invalid in my mind.



ssj12 said:

Why did the customer buy a game they should have known they wouldn;t like? If they hate FPSs why would they buy an FPS all becasue its hyped, they should know they hate the genre. So its not the publishers fault that the customer was an idiot and bought into hype from the media and their friends who like the genre. It is completely the customer's idiocy.

Two things.

A. The vast majority of this topic isn't about returning games you've accidently purchased. That should be illegal. Amazon doesn't even allow it(and I didn't think Walmart did either, anymore). It's about reselling games you've beaten, which you should be allowed to do, imo. Especially with the high prices for retail games. This is not the PC market. Sony is NOT steam, and Jaffe would keep his shit full price for eternity, if he could, knowing his ego.

B. Even I've bought a few games that I regretted. It happens sometimes, no matter how much research you do. I didn't return them, but I did resell them. Why should I have 5000 dollars worth of games on my shelf, when the gaming industry is charging 60 dollars a pop, and I know I'll never play them again. You don't get a good return for your investment on most games. Period. I can't justify paying 20 dollars an hour to play a videogame. It's rediculious, and now Activision wants to raise it. Used games are good for the industry, and I doubt DLC will take over as quickly as Jaffe seems to hope.



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

ZenfoldorVGI said:
ssj12 said:
 

Why did the customer buy a game they should have known they wouldn;t like? If they hate FPSs why would they buy an FPS all becasue its hyped, they should know they hate the genre. So its not the publishers fault that the customer was an idiot and bought into hype from the media and their friends who like the genre. It is completely the customer's idiocy.

Two things.

A. The vast majority of this topic isn't about returning games you've accidently purchased. That should be illegal. Amazon doesn't even allow it(and I didn't think Walmart did either, anymore). It's about reselling games you've beaten, which you should be allowed to do, imo. Especially with the high prices for retail games. This is not the PC market. Sony is NOT steam, and Jaffe would keep his shit full price for eternity, if he could, knowing his ego.

B. Even I've bought a few games that I regretted. It happens sometimes, no matter how much research you do. I didn't return them, but I did resell them. Why should I have 5000 dollars worth of games on my shelf, when the gaming industry is charging 60 dollars a pop, and I know I'll never play them again. You don't get a good return for your investment on most games. Period. I can't justify paying 20 dollars an hour to play a videogame. It's rediculious, and now Activision wants to raise it. Used games are good for the industry, and I doubt DLC will take over as quickly as Jaffe seems to hope.

Actually, he's explicitly said numerous times that game prices are currently way too high.



Cactus said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:

And that fact alone makes all of your other (sometimes rational) arguments invalid in my mind.

That's why I let you know. Not the biggest Jaffe fan here.

That said, most people in this thread are for or against jaffe in one way or another, they just aren't honest enough to tell you about it.



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.