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WOOOOW SHIT now that i didn't see coming, i hope it isn't because of all the excitement from the past week



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

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Dafuq!



So I was thinking about Cesaro and Heyman, and the question occurred to me "What happened to Kurtis Axel?"



spdk1 said:
On Warrior's Passing...

Well this is sooo sad! Warrior was just just on RAW Monday, dude looked pretty good for someone in their mid-fifties. I'm sad about his two young girls and wife, they seemed downright delighted at his Hall of Fame speech, it seems like his family gave him the much needed grounding that it seemed like he needed. I was never a fan of his when I was a kid, but as an adult I grew to really respect the guy.

(Minus his political beliefs...lol)

I DVRed Raw so i went back and saw the whole segment again. Listening to what he said its almost as if he knew. Also not sure if it was just due to all the excitement but him just walking to the ring...he just looked out of breath.



Watching 2006's ECW One Night Stand on WWE Network. Best crowd, EVER!! It's a magical experience so far.

Anybody want to make a list of must see PPV's?



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Kasz216 said:
TheGoldenBoy said:

Cena had the perfect chance to turn hell at Wrestlemania against Wyatt. I guess that's why the match was so disappointing to me. I understand that he is a cash cow and that the kids love him but if Hogan, Steve Austin, The Rock, Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, etc.  could all go heel, so can John Cena. Besides with Bryan at the top there is no better time for a heel turn.

To be fair, Hogan didn't go heel until after he lost his relevence somewhat in WCW, Michaels and Hart were better natural heels and Austin and Rock's heel runs kinda sucked (at least imo).

The problem with Cena turning heel is...  I' not sure how he can do it.   He pulled off the white ganster rapper heel... ok... for what it was...

but an Evil Cena is like an Evil Superman.  Without his principles there really isn't anything there outside the overwhelminng power... and if you take that away...  

What does a heel Cena even look like?

What sells a heel Cena?   People hate Cena now, but for the same reasons they hate Superman.  He's a goody goody that defies all odds and always wins.

Turn Cena heel and he loses everything that gets him heel heat.

It's like when everyone started cheering for the sadistic version of Randy Orton.  As soon as they turned him face he lost most of his appeal because that sadistic side was what sold him, and he couldn't punt people in the head anymore.  

The only way I could see you turning him heel is if he just betrays the fans... then still constantly wins and gets put over like current Super Cena... while focusing soley on "Hustle" and just being all smug about how he keeps winning.

While using the occasional heel trick to win... though generallly going over clean even against big guys.

The era we are in right now crowd reactions aren't the same. Fans don't boo heels and cheer faces, they cheer and boo whoever they want. The Shield and the Wyatts both got cheered when they were supposed to be heel and faces like John Cena and Batista got booed. Paul Heyman was booed in the beginning of the show and Lesnar's manager but was suddenly cheered as Cesaro's. I think Cena would get booed regardless of face or heel, especially depending on the opponent.

As for what a heel Cena looks like: I have no idea. But I do want to see it and see what angle WWE takes it. It could be as simple as Cena being angry with the fact that he feels he hasn't gotten the respect and loyalty he deserves for everything he has done in the WWE. He's tired of making people happy when they don't give him what he deserves. I'm not sure but that's the simplest approach I can think of at the moment.



TheGoldenBoy said:

The era we are in right now crowd reactions aren't the same. Fans don't boo heels and cheer faces, they cheer and boo whoever they want. The Shield and the Wyatts both got cheered when they were supposed to be heel and faces like John Cena and Batista got booed. Paul Heyman was booed in the beginning of the show and Lesnar's manager but was suddenly cheered as Cesaro's. I think Cena would get booed regardless of face or heel, especially depending on the opponent.

As for what a heel Cena looks like: I have no idea. But I do want to see it and see what angle WWE takes it. It could be as simple as Cena being angry with the fact that he feels he hasn't gotten the respect and loyalty he deserves for everything he has done in the WWE. He's tired of making people happy when they don't give him what he deserves. I'm not sure but that's the simplest approach I can think of at the moment.

If there is one thing I've learned in business, it's that the customer is never wrong about what they like.  They're usually wrong about everything else ("the customer is always right" is PR bullcarp) but not that.  If your heel is getting cheered and your face is getting booed then you're doing something wrong.  It's like if your customer wants a shooter and you're all like, "no, here, take a platformer, a platformer!"

It's really a situation the WWE has created themselves by ignoring what the audience wants for a very long time.  When the audience started getting tired of Super Cena the WWE kept putting him at the top.  When it was clear that the audience wanted more entertaining, skilled wrestlers in the mold of Angle or Michaels, the WWE kept pushing slow muscle-men to the top.  The WWE had in mind what they wanted to do, only they forgot that what the AUDIENCE wants is the most important element.

Honestly, I've never been more proud of an audience than when Shaemus got booed after that joke of a match against Daniel Bryan.  Chanting random stuff when the WWE tried to push Cena vs. Orton on us again is also up there, as is booing Batista's Rumble win.

I think it became crystal clear awhile ago that what the WWE was doing was totally at odds with what the fans wanted and I'm very happy to see that someone in the WWE finally took notice.  I don't think it's so much about heel vs. face as it is about people saying, "okay, we want to see more of THIS guy, and we don't give a rat's ass if he's not a former bodybuilder, we just care that he's interesting and exciting."



pokoko said:
TheGoldenBoy said:

The era we are in right now crowd reactions aren't the same. Fans don't boo heels and cheer faces, they cheer and boo whoever they want. The Shield and the Wyatts both got cheered when they were supposed to be heel and faces like John Cena and Batista got booed. Paul Heyman was booed in the beginning of the show and Lesnar's manager but was suddenly cheered as Cesaro's. I think Cena would get booed regardless of face or heel, especially depending on the opponent.

As for what a heel Cena looks like: I have no idea. But I do want to see it and see what angle WWE takes it. It could be as simple as Cena being angry with the fact that he feels he hasn't gotten the respect and loyalty he deserves for everything he has done in the WWE. He's tired of making people happy when they don't give him what he deserves. I'm not sure but that's the simplest approach I can think of at the moment.

If there is one thing I've learned in business, it's that the customer is never wrong about what they like.  They're usually wrong about everything else ("the customer is always right" is PR bullcarp) but not that.  If your heel is getting cheered and your face is getting booed then you're doing something wrong.  It's like if your customer wants a shooter and you're all like, "no, here, take a platformer, a platformer!"

It's really a situation the WWE has created themselves by ignoring what the audience wants for a very long time.  When the audience started getting tired of Super Cena the WWE kept putting him at the top.  When it was clear that the audience wanted more entertaining, skilled wrestlers in the mold of Angle or Michaels, the WWE kept pushing slow muscle-men to the top.  The WWE had in mind what they wanted to do, only they forgot that what the AUDIENCE wants is the most important element.

Honestly, I've never been more proud of an audience than when Shaemus got booed after that joke of a match against Daniel Bryan. Chanting random stuff when the WWE tried to push Cena vs. Orton on us again is also up there, as is booing Batista's Rumble win.

I think it became crystal clear awhile ago that what the WWE was doing was totally at odds with what the fans wanted and I'm very happy to see that someone in the WWE finally took notice.  I don't think it's so much about heel vs. face as it is about people saying, "okay, we want to see more of THIS guy, and we don't give a rat's ass if he's not a former bodybuilder, we just care that he's interesting and exciting."

I agree with pretty much everything you said. But about the bolded, the audience sometimes fucks over great matches as well. They don't always make the right "choices". I still don't understand why Rey Mysterio is getting booed so much. He's been pretty consistent and done nothing to generate the recent string of boos he's been getting. Also when the crowd started chanting "CM Punk" in Shield matches and "Husky Harris" in Bray Wyatt matches it got really annoying.

Other than that they've been pretty good in representing what the fans truly want. The last Raw was the best in a long time and while I know not every Raw will be that good I do hope they continue in the trend in at least listening to the fans.



TheGoldenBoy said:

I agree with pretty much everything you said. But about the bolded, the audience sometimes fucks over great matches as well. They don't always make the right "choices". I still don't understand why Rey Mysterio is getting booed so much. He's been pretty consistent and done nothing to generate the recent string of boos he's been getting. Also when the crowd started chanting "CM Punk" in Shield matches and "Husky Harris" in Bray Wyatt matches it got really annoying.

Other than that they've been pretty good in representing what the fans truly want. The last Raw was the best in a long time and while I know not every Raw will be that good I do hope they continue in the trend in at least listening to the fans.

I mostly agree and it's a shame about Rey.  At the same time, though, I kind of understand that, too.  The first part wasn't his fault, he was just caught in the wrong time at the wrong place and fans were venting over the WWE being stupid.  However, I think people have gotten tired of him doing the same exact things in the ring that he did 10 years ago.  I've also seen him, twice since he came back, beg not to be hit then launch a sneak attack--that's a classic heel move.

CM Punk chants during good matches have gotten annoying but I don't mind the "Husky Harris" or "Albert" chants--it's up to the character to make the audience forget those characters, which is exactly what "Bray Wyatt" has done.

Of course, I also absolutely hate "what" chants and wish that had never started at all.



d21lewis said:
Watching 2006's ECW One Night Stand on WWE Network. Best crowd, EVER!! It's a magical experience so far.

Anybody want to make a list of must see PPV's?



Armageddon 2000 (that cell match though)

Wrestlemania 23 (Battle of the billionaires was good, Cena and michaels wrestled a great match)

A very underrated PPV: December to Disemember 2006

Backlash 2007

Backlash 2004

No Mercy 2005

Summerslam 2002