Onimusha12 said: wenlan said: But you do have more choices now, don't you? All the companies are the same, they want your money. It's called business! More choices isn't always a good thing. If I gave you the choice of eating a shit sandwitch, the testacles of a rotting dog carcass or a bowl of tape worms, does the fact I gave you a choice really matter? Not all companies are the same, wanting my money is not enough to make them desperate, wanting my money doesn't make them the same beast. It's just one simplistic aspect of business that you're using to try and lump everything together to force your simplistic views of the matter, you're still just kidding yourself and trying to make the situation look better for what you want to believe. wenlan said: Microsoft also released multiple SKU and now all the SKU have HDMI. That's not desperation? That's not rectifying the problem of their product? Be subjective, please! Microsoft's SKUs were not released under the pressure to sell a flopping console though. None of the 360's SKUs were ever desperate bids to make the 360 more cost effect, none of the 360's SKUs were in direct response to the system failing. Do you mean OBJECTIVE? not Subjective? wenlan said: How did you know the only purpose that Sony IPO their insurance business is to save PS3? What is your source? Yes, Sony made some stupid judgement in multiple arms of their core business before (first LCD TV, then MP3 player, now PS3), but they are trying to catch up. They are doing very well with their LCD TV, aren't they? Whether they will do it again on their Playstation business, we will see. I do see PSP doing pretty well lately. You ask for a source but then admit it yourself in the very next scentence? You're not very good at this are you? If Sony is doing so well, why are they being forced to sell off assets, why are they being forced to downsize? Why did the creator of the PS3 have to resign in shame? Why has Blu-Ray yet to make any real headway? Why are Sony execs constantly releasing contradicting press reports on the PS3 to the media in desperate bids to bolster its image? The PSP is doing pretty well lately because they just released a new SKU for it, but unfortunatley its software sales haven't increased any outside of Crisis Core which was incidentally released for it around the same time. Face it you're just trying to kid yourself. wenlan said: Back to the topic, I don't see anything wrong with their multiple SKU strategy. Do you hear people complaining when they buy a computer or a car for too many choices. If you want something more, pay for it. Here I quote: LeonGama says: BC is a luxury, not a necessity...   The PS3 is not a car, and the video game market is not the car market. The video game market is also not the PC market so that defense is shot too. Listen you're obviously a kid, you obviously have little experience in arguing, and you're obviously naive about how the world works. If the PS3 is doing just fine, why don't you take a look at this websites main page, unless of course you're one of those fanboys from the beginning of the PS3 launch who tried to argue the PS3 is a luxury item so its okay for it to sell less, lol.

Yes, I meant objective, thanks for pointing that out.

I didn't mean to argue with you, I just want to be fair and express my opinion in a very objective way. I see too many people on this site have double standards in judging things. Adjust the spec, Sony is desperate but Microsoft is not. Price cut, Sony is desperate but Apple is not. I just think "desperate" is a very strong word and I think Sony or Microsoft or Nintendo are doing OK in terms of making money (not all from video game department though).

"You're not very good at this are you?" Do you have to insult people like this? Does it make your life better? Why spend so much effort trying to see things in a negative way?

I am not a fanboy of any console, I have all of them except Xbox becuase I don't play FPS. For me, competition between companies is always welcome.

Sony isn't in bad shape, but they're on financially shaky ground. Even if you consider the strength of the company as a whole, you still have to justify many things to investors when you run a publically traded company.

For example, MS is financially strong but they realize their Office/OS monopoly will not last forever, so they're trying to diversify. Their investors are getting a little weary about whether entertainment is the right direction for them, since they lost 7 billion so far doing the Xbox thing. That's why they're pushing so hard for profitability this fiscal year -- they need to prove to investors that a profit can be maintained over a 1 year period, so they can suggest to investors that the Xbox can one day be profitable on its own. And if it can't, there would be no point continuing it.

The fact is that right now both Sony and Microsoft are losing a lot of money with their new consoles. Sony is more likely, in my opinion, to profit with the PS3 over all but I don't think classifying some of their moves as desperation is unreasonable at all -- they've been selling assets (and a division) to keep the PS3 afloat, effectively, and they've been making some very questionable moves to save seemingly small amounts of money with the PS3.

The very way in which they talk to their customers seems to suggest desperation, if not the fact that they are willingly reversing stances long held by the company and praised by its fans (the BC thing). It reminds me of Apple switching to Intel chips -- "we're better because we use RISC based processors" was a big tagline at Apple, then they came out and said, "we're faster because we switched to Intel chips, just like everyone else runs." That was a pure reversal and Apple fans refused to call Apple out on it. It was a desperation move because Apple was desperate to compete on the performance side of things again.

rocketpig said: wenlan said: Microsoft also released multiple SKU and now all the SKU have HDMI.  That's not desperation?  That's not rectifying the problem of their product?  Be subjective, please! You're actually comparing MS adding features at the same price point to Sony removing features and slashing the price? I wouldn't have such a problem with this if Sony would stop lying to the public... BC is important to us, we'll never have multiple SKUs again, etc. I'm fed up with their lip service. They're treating us like morons.

 

One thing to also consider is the timeline of these changes ...

The XBox 360 is almost 2 years old and is due for a price reduction which makes it (at least) $100 less than it was at launch, and a library of budget priced "Platnium Selling" games; adding a new high-end SKU sort-of makes sense to maintain interest in the system from the elitest gamers.

The PS3 is less than 1 year old, it should be selling at a rate which doesn't require a price drop to encourage sales; Sony's primary consern should be releasing the AAA software for this holiday season to make the system a valueable product.

 

HappySqurriel said: rocketpig said: wenlan said: Microsoft also released multiple SKU and now all the SKU have HDMI.  That's not desperation?  That's not rectifying the problem of their product?  Be subjective, please! You're actually comparing MS adding features at the same price point to Sony removing features and slashing the price? I wouldn't have such a problem with this if Sony would stop lying to the public... BC is important to us, we'll never have multiple SKUs again, etc. I'm fed up with their lip service. They're treating us like morons.     One thing to also consider is the timeline of these changes ... The XBox 360 is almost 2 years old and is due for a price reduction which makes it (at least) $100 less than it was at launch, and a library of budget priced "Platnium Selling" games; adding a new high-end SKU sort-of makes sense to maintain interest in the system from the elitest gamers. The PS3 is less than 1 year old, it should be selling at a rate which doesn't require a price drop to encourage sales; Sony's primary consern should be releasing the AAA software for this holiday season to make the system a valueable product. Â

Any company releasing AAA for any holiday is to make the system a valuable product. Companies relase games to make money first and foremost and art comes second. AAA Titles are there to make immense amounts of money ( a la Halo 3) and to make a valuable product. What company doesn't want a valuable product? I'm failing to see the point of your post.

DMeisterJ said: Any company releasing AAA for any holiday is to make the system a valuable product. Companies relase games to make money first and foremost and art comes second. AAA Titles are there to make immense amounts of money ( a la Halo 3) and to make a valuable product. What company doesn't want a valuable product? I'm failing to see the point of your post.

A company can strive for great art and great profit you know.  They're not mutually exclusive.

^^^^ You are correct, they can. But more times than not, one (profit) outweighs the other (art). Look at Madden 08. This is the same game they release every year with a roster update. It's not like there isn't anything they can't add to the game but why waste money on a new engine or things to do when there is no other competitor out ther and you know your game will sell millions across seven or ten platforms. SVR is becoming like that too, just a roster update.

DMeisterJ said: ^^^^ You are correct, they can. But more times than not, one (profit) outweighs the other (art). Look at Madden 08. This is the same game they release every year with a roster update. It's not like there isn't anything they can't add to the game but why waste money on a new engine or things to do when there is no other competitor out ther and you know your game will sell millions across seven or ten platforms. SVR is becoming like that too, just a roster update.

I don't disagree with your example, but I hate using EA as an example of anything.

By comparison, I would use Bioware as my example of a company that does amazing at everything.

"The PS3 is not a car, and the video game market is not the car market. "...

"More choices isn't always a good thing. If I gave you the choice of eating a shit sandwitch, the testacles of a rotting dog carcass or a bowl of tape worms, does the fact I gave you a choice really matter?"

The video game market isn't a fast food market neither, if you can do metaphors/comparisons/whatever, why the kid can't?

@WOW
Yeah, I hate using EA as an example but sometimes you have to prove a point when money outweighs art. Bioware is a good representation of the other side when art actually wins and the gamer actually wins.

rocketpig said: wenlan said: Microsoft also released multiple SKU and now all the SKU have HDMI. That's not desperation? That's not rectifying the problem of their product? Be subjective, please! You're actually comparing MS adding features at the same price point to Sony removing features and slashing the price? I wouldn't have such a problem with this if Sony would stop lying to the public... BC is important to us, we'll never have multiple SKUs again, etc. I'm fed up with their lip service. They're treating us like morons.

 Adding features like "the console no longer bursts into flames"?

I am angry at Sony for some things and I think the no-BC PS3 is a horrible move, but as far as the PR department goes, things have reached the point that I believe they treat us like morons because they themselves are morons.