famousringo said: Words Of Wisdom said: puffy said: A videogame console is a means to prevent software made for that particular console from being used, unless the user owns said console. No matter how many times I read this sentence, it still fails to make sense. He's coming at it from the wrong angle. He's describing it from the console maker's point of view as a DRM device when he should be describing it as the consumer buying the ability to run certain software. @ V-r0ck He's just aggregating. Value is subjective. It would be more accurate to say that the Wii has the most value to the most people. I'm sure there are many people who value the PS3, 360, or PSP more than the Wii, there are simply more who rank the Wii at the top.

In this case, you are confusing value with perceived value as is the OP.  Buying a console demonstrates perceived value in that the consumer sees enough value there to have it be worth purchase.  However, actual value is usually only known after purchase.  Was it worth the money?  Do you still play it a month later?  How often is it used?  Answers to these questions are more representative of actual value. 

famousringo said: Words Of Wisdom said: puffy said: A videogame console is a means to prevent software made for that particular console from being used, unless the user owns said console. No matter how many times I read this sentence, it still fails to make sense. He's coming at it from the wrong angle. He's describing it from the console maker's point of view as a DRM device when he should be describing it as the consumer buying the ability to run certain software. @ V-r0ck He's just aggregating. Value is subjective. It would be more accurate to say that the Wii has the most value to the most people. I'm sure there are many people who value the PS3, 360, or PSP more than the Wii, there are simply more who rank the Wii at the top.

Agreed.  I just think he's using the wrong terms.  But stating that the Wii is most beneficial is incorrect.

@smashchu: Thanks and you're perfectly right, only 10 - 20% of companies are market orientated firms, in the way they go about things and I think Nintendo have become one of them in the last few years. i.e. they actually take in market research and listen to what the consumer wants through looking at what sells etc and acting upon it while 80% of companies will actually do what thye were going to do anyway. Most people don't see this underlying value that consumers are looking for

Barozi said: Actually Hexic HD is a 20 million seller on the Xbox 360. Weird that you did not include it in your list, yet Wii Sports is in there.......

I listed the top 10 titles that VGChartz has listed, don't blame me lol

@student: All this is based on very up to date (2009) marketing theory which centres around the newest age in marketing from production -> sales -> marketing department -> the market orientated firm (today)

These games are adding more value than anything on the 360 or PS3 no? If they weren't then Wii would not be on top.. Attach rates really do not matter in this case.

@famousringo: No point pussyfooting around, more value to more people = more value. Which is more profit $1 billion or $2 billion?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Words Of Wisdom said: famousringo said: Words Of Wisdom said: puffy said: A videogame console is a means to prevent software made for that particular console from being used, unless the user owns said console. No matter how many times I read this sentence, it still fails to make sense. He's coming at it from the wrong angle. He's describing it from the console maker's point of view as a DRM device when he should be describing it as the consumer buying the ability to run certain software. @ V-r0ck He's just aggregating. Value is subjective. It would be more accurate to say that the Wii has the most value to the most people. I'm sure there are many people who value the PS3, 360, or PSP more than the Wii, there are simply more who rank the Wii at the top. In this case, you are confusing value with perceived value as is the OP.  Buying a console demonstrates perceived value in that the consumer sees enough value there to have it be worth purchase.  However, actual value is usually only known after purchase.  Was it worth the money?  Do you still play it a month later?  How often is it used?  Answers to these questions are more representative of actual value.

That's a fair distinction, I suppose. Do you think there's any way to relate software sales to actual value, or are they just based on the percieved value of the software? And if actual value was substantially lower than percieved value, wouldn't the used console market quickly undermine the sales of new units?

@ puffy

Yeah, but it's good to be clear about these things. It's easy to mix up the individual with the aggregate. See: Stereotyping, profiling, etc.

Words Of Wisdom said: famousringo said: Words Of Wisdom said: puffy said: A videogame console is a means to prevent software made for that particular console from being used, unless the user owns said console. No matter how many times I read this sentence, it still fails to make sense. He's coming at it from the wrong angle. He's describing it from the console maker's point of view as a DRM device when he should be describing it as the consumer buying the ability to run certain software. @ V-r0ck He's just aggregating. Value is subjective. It would be more accurate to say that the Wii has the most value to the most people. I'm sure there are many people who value the PS3, 360, or PSP more than the Wii, there are simply more who rank the Wii at the top. In this case, you are confusing value with perceived value as is the OP.  Buying a console demonstrates perceived value in that the consumer sees enough value there to have it be worth purchase.  However, actual value is usually only known after purchase.  Was it worth the money?  Do you still play it a month later?  How often is it used?  Answers to these questions are more representative of actual value.

The OP actually covers actual value also, I stated the benefits and costs of owning the console for it's entire life must be considered. However I looked for what was the most important thing, I looked at the market from a consumer stand point and looked at what a consoles primary job is and I basically echoed what Nintendo have been saying for a very long time, software sells hardware. The proof I believe is in the sales figures, especially if you look at 2008 compared to this year. Nintendo could drop the price to lower the costs to consumers but releasing titles that the consumer would look at and want to buy a Wii for is more beneficial to the company as they stand to make much more profit that way.

famousringo said: Words Of Wisdom said: In this case, you are confusing value with perceived value as is the OP.  Buying a console demonstrates perceived value in that the consumer sees enough value there to have it be worth purchase.  However, actual value is usually only known after purchase.  Was it worth the money?  Do you still play it a month later?  How often is it used?  Answers to these questions are more representative of actual value.  That's a fair distinction, I suppose. Do you think there's any way to relate software sales to actual value, or are they just based on the percieved value of the software? And if actual value was substantially lower than percieved value, wouldn't the used console market quickly undermine the sales of new units?

Well, I'd say actual value of a console likely increased by having more games to play on it, but it's not guaranteed.  I know people who have bought maybe 7 Wii games and still hardly use it or haven't particularly enjoyed it.  Likewise I'm fairly certain there are people with just Wii Sports who love the Wii.

In order to say the used console market represents actual value, you need to assert that a representative number of dissatisfied people are selling them on it as opposed to just keeping it around in a closet somewhere.  This plays into the audience demographics too.  Since the Wii's demographics range from very young to very old neither of which I believe would heavily use the used market websites like Ebay as much as the inbetween ages, it's really hard to say that what we see in those areas is representative.

Actual value is really hard to measure.  At the moment, the best I can think of right now is online play time, but that's just an indicator on a small scale at best.

you get what you pay for, comes to mind, but I suppose that's a given because it's applies to all things in life.

To me the wii has the least value, it simply doesn't have the games I like, so all those big selling games on wii are all well and good, but if they have no appeal to me then their is no such value, and many people are like me, after all this is all subjective and even with a definition of value, each person has their own mental definition of what for them is value.

So right now, people wanting Modern warfare 2....well they'll get it on either the PS3/360 or PC, same goes for bioshock 2 and many other games not available on wii, so while the wii has a few singular titles which sell way more than it's competition, they don't have that broad range of high selling games that the PS3 and 360 have, I mean just buy looking at forum chatter of games people want and are coming this year, a majority of those are not on the wii, and to people like my self, if the games your interested in are not going to the wii then it subtracts value from it, more so if said person doesn't like the Nintendo games.

So apart from gaming the wii has little left to entice me with, and entice me it did not, with lack of proper online and games that support it, well it actually repeals me since I like online gaming, now one could say "you get what you pay for", this doesn't hold true because like Nintendo, Sony's online is free but far superior, with the 360 being top dog, but that service you pay for.

Now since the Wii has no proper media functionality, for me at least, the Wii has nothing I want, and yes I do love the media functionality my PS3 has, why? simply because some times I don't feel like playing games but prefer to watch a blu-ray or DVD or what ever I have on my portable hard drive, so to me at least the PS3 is great value since I use most if not all it's features, I know some will point out that I could just use a dvd player or a blu-ray player but the point is that with the PS3 I don't have to, so at least I save money on actually buying a blu-ray player which I don't currently have, and I'm sure there are many people in my exact position either with PS3 or 360.

I know allot of people will probably cite the Nintendo games as being worth it, but I'm not a Nintendo man so there games have no appeal to me, grew up a sega man and then migrated to sony consoles, and it's the Sony franchise's the appeal to me the most, the 360 also have some great franchises and at the end of the day you buy a console to play the games you like...having said that though, Nintendo, are simply pushing me away, I suppose though that at the end of the day I'm not their core market.

In the end, saying "Wii is the console with the most value" is wrong, as value is a subjective matter and highly dependant on peoples taste in games and the availability of said games on each console as well as each person desire in other features apart from gaming which may or may not be present in each console machine.

Destroyer_of_knights said: you get what you pay for, comes to mind, but I suppose that's a given because it's applies to all things in life. To me the wii has the least value, it simply doesn't have the games I like, so all those big selling games on wii are all well and good, but if they have no appeal to me then their is no such value, and many people are like me, after all this is all subjective and even with a definition of value, each person has their own mental definition of what for them is value. So right now, people wanting Modern warfare 2....well they'll get it on either the PS3/360 or PC, same goes for bioshock 2 and many other games not available on wii, so while the wii has a few singular titles which sell way more than it's competition, they don't have that broad range of high selling games that the PS3 and 360 have, I mean just buy looking at forum chatter of games people want and are coming this year, a majority of those are not on the wii, and to people like my self, if the games your interested in are not going to the wii then it subtracts value from it, more so if said person doesn't like the Nintendo games. So apart from gaming the wii has little left to entice me with, and entice me it did not, with lack of proper online and games that support it, well it actually repeals me since I like online gaming, now one could say "you get what you pay for", this doesn't hold true because like Nintendo, Sony's online is free but far superior, with the 360 being top dog, but that service you pay for. Now since the Wii has no proper media functionality, for me at least, the Wii has nothing I want, and yes I do love the media functionality my PS3 has, why? simply because some times I don't feel like playing games but prefer to watch a blu-ray or DVD or what ever I have on my portable hard drive, so to me at least the PS3 is great value since I use most if not all it's features, I know some will point out that I could just use a dvd player or a blu-ray player but the point is that with the PS3 I don't have to, so at least I save money on actually buying a blu-ray player which I don't currently have, and I'm sure there are many people in my exact position either with PS3 or 360. I know allot of people will probably cite the Nintendo games as being worth it, but I'm not a Nintendo man so there games have no appeal to me, grew up a sega man and then migrated to sony consoles, and it's the Sony franchise's the appeal to me the most, the 360 also have some great franchises and at the end of the day you buy a console to play the games you like...having said that though, Nintendo, ware simply pushing me away, I suppose though that at the end of the day I'm not their core market.

Well I bolded all the issues in that post.. It's ok for you to see less value in Wii and I can see where you're coming from especially with having the blu-ray player built in, that's a big benefit to you. However that's what it is. It's a benefit to you, one which you say frequently that many people like you would like but in fact many more would prefer Wii Fit to having blu-ray.

You also said "I mean just buy looking at forum chatter of games people want and are coming this year ... " Well yeah the few tens of thousands of people frequenting forums.. I'm sure there are many also trumpeting Ubuntu but take a look at Linux's marketshare. I'm glad you enjoy your PS3 and find it a worthy purchase but I'm taking on a more encompassing, consumer/market orientated approach to my argument.

Ah... I see what you're trying to say...

I think if you state that the Wii holds more value to the mainstream consumer in your OP then I might tend to lean on agreeing with you more.

As value, like so many things, is very subjective and can easily jump from one topic of value to another.

Value may be subjective, but sales aren't.