What is it with Sony and saying that they are leading the industry....Everything that comes out their mouths is implying some sort dictatorship over the Console and games market...when so far this gen all reports put them at a low point....

MSFT spends a lot more every year on advertising than either Sony or Nintendo, and they also spend more money securing third-party support. They also make less money on their first-party titles.

Anyway, trying to assign respective profits and losses to each product and service within MSFT's E&D division is flawed from the start, and the mere fact that they have it in the E&D division is awfully suspicious when it comes to finances.

Haven't you heard? Third's the new first. In reverse world, you lead from behind.

OT: I misread the OP. I thought it said 'Bruce on Games.'

I wouldn't have said anything to the OP had he lifted some stuff from his blog. Since you didn't consult the veteran Bruce, OP - you PHAIL.

So they spend somewhere in the realm of a billion dollars to advertise?

Like I said, 5.6B revenue, 4.3B Cost of revenue incl Xbox 360, with the Zune being a minor component and a significant chunk of R+D of which most goes to areas outside of the Xbox 360 such as Windows Mobile, Natal, Surface etc.

Hopefully you'd also realise that the significant way they money hat any prospective third party publisher is in the royalty fees paid and that would show up in reduced revenue and not as an outgoing expenditure.

Trying to assign a dollar value on their operations is flawed? They give percentages for each component so its not hard to work out revenue etc.

But its obvious that the idea that they are making money on the Xbox 360 just doesn't fly with you on a personal level.

MS leaving money spinners like HALO and XBox live stranded and dangling?
I highly doubt that. And you can quote me on that if you wish.

The largest mistakes they've made this gen was the design/testing of the console.
If it didn't have those problems, who knows where they'd be now?
Hell, even I'd have one by now, but I just can't take the risk currently residing in the ass end of nowhere.

a next gen MS console is pretty much guaranteed

When you add all of those things together, they can easily run up huge deficits over time.

What part of "you can't assign specific profits and losses to devices in an entire division" do you not understand. Percentages aren't anything but marketing spin, and revenue does not equal profits.

You again have failed to address what I've said, which is that for all of the 360's sold, etc, MSFT hasn't actually made any money. MSFT is selling more 360's than it was at this time last year, yet the money has not significantly increased. As a matter of fact, the E&D Division posted a 31 million dollar loss last quarter.

The Xbox 360 bothering me on a personal level? Please. If anything, it's you who seems to throw a fit every time someone says anything that runs contrary to the 360 being master of the universe.

Hmm, this article is blatant foeboyism.

what I think people who are so Quick to say "Ms would not" may not look at this from a perspective...notice he said..Console...Ms may not make another Console that does not mean the XBOX360's or next Generation XBOX'S DASH BOARD could not be say leased to any and all PC manuf....!, and fully open up xboxlive to any BOX with the XBOX dashboard. thus Microsoft make the xboxlive experience just like you have the Windows OS experience.

the box is not what makes the xbox its the software...! ,So how would that mean that Microsoft would leave the console biz. as long as the software is there they will never leave.

When you add all of those things together, they can easily run up huge deficits over time.

This doesn't mean anything.

What part of "you can't assign specific profits and losses to devices in an entire division" do you not understand. Percentages aren't anything but marketing spin, and revenue does not equal profits.

Marketing spin does not belong on a financial report. If the auditor thought that any of their statements were misleading they would have written so on the auditors report and since no such statement has been made by the auditor its fairly safe to say that none of the statements and figures shown are misleading or false.

Revenue - liabilities = profit. I get that point pretty well. You ignored the 4.3B cost of revenue, not me.

You again have failed to address what I've said, which is that for all of the 360's sold, etc, MSFT hasn't actually made any money. MSFT is selling more 360's than it was at this time last year, yet the money has not significantly increased. As a matter of fact, the E&D Division posted a 31 million dollar loss last quarter.

So? Your beliefs aren't going to change no matter what is said because you want to believe that the Xbox 360 is unprofitable. It doesn't matter how the division as a whole does because when talking about the Xbox 360 the profitability of the Zune or Windows mobile is irrelevant. Did you not see how the cost of revenue fell even though they sold more Xbox 360s?

The Xbox 360 bothering me on a personal level? Please. If anything, it's you who seems to throw a fit every time someone says anything that runs contrary to the 360 being master of the universe.

Why are you continuing to try to debate this when you don't understand fundamental concepts?

Revenue - liabilities = profit.

I've given you the revenue.

I've given you the liabilities which is padded with Zune and other costs somewhat.

All you've given me is airy BS like, 'I don't believe, or In my heart, my left testicle is telling me'.

The same financial statement is there for you as it is for me. Stop dancing around the issues, stop saying that you don't believe and prove me wrong. Prove conclusively that the Xbox 360 is unprofitable and stop hiding behind the BS on the front of the financial statement which is only telling me you don't know anything about this at all and you're just grinding an axe. The Xbox 360 is a product. It costs money to produce, to advertise etc and it brings in revenue. That one product is all that matters here, prove that its losing money.

though i agree proving one way or the other if Microsoft is or is not losing money on the xbox part of the ETD. at Microsoft is not at this point a viable point of "Microsoft would pull out of the console biz" the pulling out is what the real point of this article is about. I think for me in my Opinion that its pretty much a moot point anyway. Microsoft would gather more profit on their software and services like they alway's have over the added expense of includeing a hardware solution over the expense of just letting any hardware manuf. to purchase the XBOX dashboard software and just like the windows OS have many types of XBOX's out there for anyone to choose from. If you do not see that happening I do not think that is so far fetched due to the very fact that's one of Microsoft's real strength's look at the IHD software for HD DVD it was set to be any an all hardware manuf. could use IHD if they wanted too for a price. the xbox dashboard could very well go the same route. Is it very likely...there is a 50/50 chance in like it either does or it doesn't