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Chrizum said:
sad.man.loves.vgc said:
FootballFan said:
sad.man.loves.vgc said:
Slimebeast said:

I'm still so disappointed by Holland.

Holland is supposed to be the "Brazil of Europe" dammit. Highly skilled, offensive and so entertaining. Now , in my opinion, they made fools of themselves by playing like a B rated national team. And no it was not just because of the rough and dirty play. They had the chance to write history and what do they do - try to win by playing ultra defensive like Greece. And obviously Spain would win. Only by watching the first 10 minutes I knew it was all over for Holland. I mean, didn't they watch Spain vs Portugal and Spain vs Germany? I've never seen a Dutch team allow themselves to be dominated by the opponent in a such a way.

The difference in skills between Spain and Holland just isn't that big as Holland made it look in the final. Really it looked like a team that has no confidence in their ability. I hope they fire that coach. This loss will be etched in Dutch heads for decades. Labeled as "the little guy" for years to come.

Why, oh why didn't they play their own game...

 

Because they don't have a good striker, van persie sucked badly and he shouldn't be playing as a starter and Kyut is good but he is painfully inconstant and his strogenst points don't include scoring anyway.

It was so obvious that they will pass to robben whenever there was a chance and even if there wasn't and even if he was surrounded by 3 players they would still pass!

And spain is hard to be dominated just like barcelona, when teams like Inter Milan and Chelsea that have much more potential to outplay the current holland team play defensive against Barcelona that should tell you something! add to that Iker Casillas, Sergio Ramos, Navas and Cesc Fabgregas. yeah it's not that they didn't learn from portugal mistakes - which is a better team in my opinion- it's just that there wasn't really much they could do.

Also Robben couldn't hit the back of the net. When he had enough chances to win the game for Holland on his own.

I understand the pressure , the whole team was passing to him.

Spain are just too good and the only team who has similar potentials is England but Cappello fucked up badly.

England, really? England doesn't have a very good selection compared to Spain, Holland, Brazil and Germany. I'd put even Argentina above England when it comes to pure quality of the players.


Rooney  is a fantastic striker and is better than Van persie and Luis Fabiano in my opinion, Gerrard is considered one of the best players in the middle field better than Kaka and on par with Snijder . Lampard is constant and always dilvers, Joe cole is one of the best wingers and I'd put him right under robben, Terry and Ferdinad are on par with puyol and Pique in my opinion, goal keeping is a lol comparison though

of course names are not enough and wc 2010 is enough. The way they played together is shameful thanks to stuborn Cappello , that's why I said "potential", they have the potential to put up a fight against Spain but not in this form.



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And there we go again. England fans hyping their team and talent and expecting so much. Then they are surprised at England loosing latest in the quarter finals.



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Faxanadu said:

And there we go again. England fans hyping their team and talent and expecting so much. Then they are surprised at England loosing latest in the quarter finals.


I wasn't surprised, sad but not surprised.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/jul/15/emile-heskey-england-international-retirement



Barozi said:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/jul/15/emile-heskey-england-international-retirement

Best day for English football since 1966.



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sad.man.loves.vgc said:
Chrizum said:
sad.man.loves.vgc said:
FootballFan said:
sad.man.loves.vgc said:
Slimebeast said:

I'm still so disappointed by Holland.

Holland is supposed to be the "Brazil of Europe" dammit. Highly skilled, offensive and so entertaining. Now , in my opinion, they made fools of themselves by playing like a B rated national team. And no it was not just because of the rough and dirty play. They had the chance to write history and what do they do - try to win by playing ultra defensive like Greece. And obviously Spain would win. Only by watching the first 10 minutes I knew it was all over for Holland. I mean, didn't they watch Spain vs Portugal and Spain vs Germany? I've never seen a Dutch team allow themselves to be dominated by the opponent in a such a way.

The difference in skills between Spain and Holland just isn't that big as Holland made it look in the final. Really it looked like a team that has no confidence in their ability. I hope they fire that coach. This loss will be etched in Dutch heads for decades. Labeled as "the little guy" for years to come.

Why, oh why didn't they play their own game...

 

Because they don't have a good striker, van persie sucked badly and he shouldn't be playing as a starter and Kyut is good but he is painfully inconstant and his strogenst points don't include scoring anyway.

It was so obvious that they will pass to robben whenever there was a chance and even if there wasn't and even if he was surrounded by 3 players they would still pass!

And spain is hard to be dominated just like barcelona, when teams like Inter Milan and Chelsea that have much more potential to outplay the current holland team play defensive against Barcelona that should tell you something! add to that Iker Casillas, Sergio Ramos, Navas and Cesc Fabgregas. yeah it's not that they didn't learn from portugal mistakes - which is a better team in my opinion- it's just that there wasn't really much they could do.

Also Robben couldn't hit the back of the net. When he had enough chances to win the game for Holland on his own.

I understand the pressure , the whole team was passing to him.

Spain are just too good and the only team who has similar potentials is England but Cappello fucked up badly.

England, really? England doesn't have a very good selection compared to Spain, Holland, Brazil and Germany. I'd put even Argentina above England when it comes to pure quality of the players.


Rooney  is a fantastic striker and is better than Van persie and Luis Fabiano in my opinion, Gerrard is considered one of the best players in the middle field better than Kaka and on par with Snijder . Lampard is constant and always dilvers, Joe cole is one of the best wingers and I'd put him right under robben, Terry and Ferdinad are on par with puyol and Pique in my opinion, goal keeping is a lol comparison though

of course names are not enough and wc 2010 is enough. The way they played together is shameful thanks to stuborn Cappello , that's why I said "potential", they have the potential to put up a fight against Spain but not in this form.

I disagree, I consider Argentina to be the team with greater individual players: Messi, Tevez, Aguero, Milito, Higuain, etc... and its even more potential when you consider what Maradona didnt call, like Zanetti, Cambiasso, etc...

And I dont see Lampard being better than Kaká, or English players being as talented as Robinho. On Rooney being better than Luis Fabiano I agree though, but with Spain, I put Brazil and Argentina as the ones with better players individually, but that cant save you always.



pastro243 said:
sad.man.loves.vgc said:
Chrizum said:
sad.man.loves.vgc said:
FootballFan said:
sad.man.loves.vgc said:
Slimebeast said:

I'm still so disappointed by Holland.

Holland is supposed to be the "Brazil of Europe" dammit. Highly skilled, offensive and so entertaining. Now , in my opinion, they made fools of themselves by playing like a B rated national team. And no it was not just because of the rough and dirty play. They had the chance to write history and what do they do - try to win by playing ultra defensive like Greece. And obviously Spain would win. Only by watching the first 10 minutes I knew it was all over for Holland. I mean, didn't they watch Spain vs Portugal and Spain vs Germany? I've never seen a Dutch team allow themselves to be dominated by the opponent in a such a way.

The difference in skills between Spain and Holland just isn't that big as Holland made it look in the final. Really it looked like a team that has no confidence in their ability. I hope they fire that coach. This loss will be etched in Dutch heads for decades. Labeled as "the little guy" for years to come.

Why, oh why didn't they play their own game...

 

Because they don't have a good striker, van persie sucked badly and he shouldn't be playing as a starter and Kyut is good but he is painfully inconstant and his strogenst points don't include scoring anyway.

It was so obvious that they will pass to robben whenever there was a chance and even if there wasn't and even if he was surrounded by 3 players they would still pass!

And spain is hard to be dominated just like barcelona, when teams like Inter Milan and Chelsea that have much more potential to outplay the current holland team play defensive against Barcelona that should tell you something! add to that Iker Casillas, Sergio Ramos, Navas and Cesc Fabgregas. yeah it's not that they didn't learn from portugal mistakes - which is a better team in my opinion- it's just that there wasn't really much they could do.

Also Robben couldn't hit the back of the net. When he had enough chances to win the game for Holland on his own.

I understand the pressure , the whole team was passing to him.

Spain are just too good and the only team who has similar potentials is England but Cappello fucked up badly.

England, really? England doesn't have a very good selection compared to Spain, Holland, Brazil and Germany. I'd put even Argentina above England when it comes to pure quality of the players.


Rooney  is a fantastic striker and is better than Van persie and Luis Fabiano in my opinion, Gerrard is considered one of the best players in the middle field better than Kaka and on par with Snijder . Lampard is constant and always dilvers, Joe cole is one of the best wingers and I'd put him right under robben, Terry and Ferdinad are on par with puyol and Pique in my opinion, goal keeping is a lol comparison though

of course names are not enough and wc 2010 is enough. The way they played together is shameful thanks to stuborn Cappello , that's why I said "potential", they have the potential to put up a fight against Spain but not in this form.

I disagree, I consider Argentina to be the team with greater individual players: Messi, Tevez, Aguero, Milito, Higuain, etc... and its even more potential when you consider what Maradona didnt call, like Zanetti, Cambiasso, etc...

And I dont see Lampard being better than Kaká, or English players being as talented as Robinho. On Rooney being better than Luis Fabiano I agree though, but with Spain, I put Brazil and Argentina as the ones with better players individually, but that cant save you always.

actually yeah I think I was being driven by my fanboyism when I said that and Lampard isn't better than kaka , gerrard is. :)



sad.man.loves.vgc said:
pastro243 said:
sad.man.loves.vgc said:
Chrizum said:
sad.man.loves.vgc said:
FootballFan said:
sad.man.loves.vgc said:
Slimebeast said:

I'm still so disappointed by Holland.

Holland is supposed to be the "Brazil of Europe" dammit. Highly skilled, offensive and so entertaining. Now , in my opinion, they made fools of themselves by playing like a B rated national team. And no it was not just because of the rough and dirty play. They had the chance to write history and what do they do - try to win by playing ultra defensive like Greece. And obviously Spain would win. Only by watching the first 10 minutes I knew it was all over for Holland. I mean, didn't they watch Spain vs Portugal and Spain vs Germany? I've never seen a Dutch team allow themselves to be dominated by the opponent in a such a way.

The difference in skills between Spain and Holland just isn't that big as Holland made it look in the final. Really it looked like a team that has no confidence in their ability. I hope they fire that coach. This loss will be etched in Dutch heads for decades. Labeled as "the little guy" for years to come.

Why, oh why didn't they play their own game...

 

Because they don't have a good striker, van persie sucked badly and he shouldn't be playing as a starter and Kyut is good but he is painfully inconstant and his strogenst points don't include scoring anyway.

It was so obvious that they will pass to robben whenever there was a chance and even if there wasn't and even if he was surrounded by 3 players they would still pass!

And spain is hard to be dominated just like barcelona, when teams like Inter Milan and Chelsea that have much more potential to outplay the current holland team play defensive against Barcelona that should tell you something! add to that Iker Casillas, Sergio Ramos, Navas and Cesc Fabgregas. yeah it's not that they didn't learn from portugal mistakes - which is a better team in my opinion- it's just that there wasn't really much they could do.

Also Robben couldn't hit the back of the net. When he had enough chances to win the game for Holland on his own.

I understand the pressure , the whole team was passing to him.

Spain are just too good and the only team who has similar potentials is England but Cappello fucked up badly.

England, really? England doesn't have a very good selection compared to Spain, Holland, Brazil and Germany. I'd put even Argentina above England when it comes to pure quality of the players.


Rooney  is a fantastic striker and is better than Van persie and Luis Fabiano in my opinion, Gerrard is considered one of the best players in the middle field better than Kaka and on par with Snijder . Lampard is constant and always dilvers, Joe cole is one of the best wingers and I'd put him right under robben, Terry and Ferdinad are on par with puyol and Pique in my opinion, goal keeping is a lol comparison though

of course names are not enough and wc 2010 is enough. The way they played together is shameful thanks to stuborn Cappello , that's why I said "potential", they have the potential to put up a fight against Spain but not in this form.

I disagree, I consider Argentina to be the team with greater individual players: Messi, Tevez, Aguero, Milito, Higuain, etc... and its even more potential when you consider what Maradona didnt call, like Zanetti, Cambiasso, etc...

And I dont see Lampard being better than Kaká, or English players being as talented as Robinho. On Rooney being better than Luis Fabiano I agree though, but with Spain, I put Brazil and Argentina as the ones with better players individually, but that cant save you always.

actually yeah I think I was being driven by my fanboyism when I said that and Lampard isn't better than kaka , gerrard is. :)


bah, stupid mistake, anyway, gerrard isnt in my opinion.



sad.man.loves.vgc said:
Slimebeast said:

I'm still so disappointed by Holland.

Holland is supposed to be the "Brazil of Europe" dammit. Highly skilled, offensive and so entertaining. Now , in my opinion, they made fools of themselves by playing like a B rated national team. And no it was not just because of the rough and dirty play. They had the chance to write history and what do they do - try to win by playing ultra defensive like Greece. And obviously Spain would win. Only by watching the first 10 minutes I knew it was all over for Holland. I mean, didn't they watch Spain vs Portugal and Spain vs Germany? I've never seen a Dutch team allow themselves to be dominated by the opponent in a such a way.

The difference in skills between Spain and Holland just isn't that big as Holland made it look in the final. Really it looked like a team that has no confidence in their ability. I hope they fire that coach. This loss will be etched in Dutch heads for decades. Labeled as "the little guy" for years to come.

Why, oh why didn't they play their own game...

 

Because they don't have a good striker, van persie sucked badly and he shouldn't be playing as a starter and Kyut is good but he is painfully inconstant and his strogenst points don't include scoring anyway.

It was so obvious that they will pass to robben whenever there was a chance and even if there wasn't and even if he was surrounded by 3 players they would still pass!

And spain is hard to be dominated just like barcelona, when teams like Inter Milan and Chelsea that have much more potential to outplay the current holland team play defensive against Barcelona that should tell you something! add to that Iker Casillas, Sergio Ramos, Navas and Cesc Fabgregas. yeah it's not that they didn't learn from portugal mistakes - which is a better team in my opinion- it's just that there wasn't really much they could do.

I don't mean necessarily to dominate literally. Because obviously Spain is skilled and very hard to dominate.

But I mean to have the ambition to dominate like Holland always has (had). To play offensive, optimistic etc like Holland always does. The Brazil of Europe. And to play your own game instead of chickening out and just adapting to the opponent. 

Adapting to the oppenents style is not always a good strategy even if the opponent is more skilled than you. By doing that (in this case going extreme defense) you risk losing your own pace and style and you risk to look out of place which Holland did on the offensive. They didn't reach Robben and Snejder at all in that game. It was like they had a 8 man defense and no ambition of midfield ball controll whatsoever.

A Czech team for example is much better at the transitions from extreme defense to fast counter strikes. Holland's counter strikes in the final just sucked because they're totally not used to this defensive strategy so they always misjudged the distance to Robben/snejder and never could reach them with passes etc.



*bows down in awe*



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