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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - The Wii wil never get the kind of third party support that the PS2 had.

Metallicube on 15 July 2009

Wii''s third party support will only continue to improve as the generation goes on. It's only inevitable that the highest selling console will have strong third party support. Gaming is a business and developers will flock where the money is. More developers are starting to wake up to the fact that Wii is here to stay. However, at the same time, Wii will never achieve the third party support it should be getting, ie, PS2 levels, because Nintendo and Wii's direction of gaming simply does not fall in line with what most third party dev's ideals. Until this changes, Wii will never gain the third party suport it should. Most third parties still place most of their emphasis in horsepower and graphics, while Wii pushes for new control schemes and innovation in gaming inferface. So obviously Wii still recieves weak support because most devs simply aren't accustomed to his new direction.

However, I believe the next generation more third parties will begin to conform to this new flavor of gaming, and as a result, Nintendo next console will be the biggest beneficiary.



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KillerMan on 15 July 2009
bdbdbd said:
@r4in: Except that NES did the same as Wi tries to doi; it stopped the videogames being geeky. NES was fun and could be enjoyed by the whole family. The only ones that had anything against it, were the kids who didn't get a NES. Once the accessibility of NES games went away next generation, videogames started going back to being geeky and kids stuff.

One of the major things Wii is doing, is trying to get the people back, who quit gaming after NES, basically this is the people who quit when the games went to 3D.

The "casual"/"hardcore" you used, pretty much describes what the 3rd parties think, and that's why they keep on failing on their Wii efforts.
And, you didn't define the core and the "hardcore" in your post, as you said you would.
Core is pretty easy, since it's the existing audience, the bread and butter of an industry. "Hardcore" is a little harder, since how it's used in the gaming forums, it seems to be meaning whatever people want to mean with it, but by judging how people who call themselves hardcore, are viewed outside, they are usually the ones that called as geeks.


??. 3D generation was when videogames became mainstream. PS1 anyone?



Ail on 16 July 2009
Arius Dion said:
The whole Hardcore Casual thinking is exactly the sort of narrowminded and limiting viewpoint that has ccasued many third parties to lose money in the first place. Talk about demographics and market just adds to the confusion and causes further tp's have success on Wii evade them. Even with Bioware talking like they haven't "figured the Wii out" it isn't rocket science.

I don't recall the whole casual/hardcore talk during the NES era and beyond. Maybe heard murmurs during the PS2 era, but nothing like it is now. I think its reall just viral marketing really and an attempt to have a segmented gaming industry. The heart of this OP, the heart of the Wii hate, the heart of hoping Wii third party titles fail is that the other Console owners want comfort in knowing that games won't stop being made for their platforms. All the PS3 vs 360 changes the moment Wii is involved to become Wii vs HD.

Third Parties flocked to the PS1 from Nintendo back in the day under many of the same circumstances facing the PS3..and lesser extent of the 360. PS3 is in a strange situation because it is almost dependent on the 360 and plagued by it.

I may be alone in thining this but I don't think this gen is going to end as early as everyone thinks it is, and I also think that just like the NES the third parties will be more visible on Wii toward the latter half of this gen.

Will Wii get the kind of third party support PS2 had? probably not, but also some third parties that were around during that gen might not be around by the time this gen closes, or at the very least bought out by some bigger 3rd party conglomerate.

I tend to disagree.
The whole hardcore/casual segregation is what has allowed a third party like Activision to dominate this gen.

They understand well what each segment of the market wants and have managed to deliver the top selling third party games in both segments.

CoD for the hardcore, GH for the casuals... 

And they are very successfull doing so, although if you look at those 2 franchises, the hardcore one (CoD) is actually the one that is experiencing the most growth..



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

Samus Aran on 16 July 2009

Yeah if you release 5 GH a year then it won't grow much...



HappySqurriel on 16 July 2009
Ail said:
Arius Dion said:
The whole Hardcore Casual thinking is exactly the sort of narrowminded and limiting viewpoint that has ccasued many third parties to lose money in the first place. Talk about demographics and market just adds to the confusion and causes further tp's have success on Wii evade them. Even with Bioware talking like they haven't "figured the Wii out" it isn't rocket science.

I don't recall the whole casual/hardcore talk during the NES era and beyond. Maybe heard murmurs during the PS2 era, but nothing like it is now. I think its reall just viral marketing really and an attempt to have a segmented gaming industry. The heart of this OP, the heart of the Wii hate, the heart of hoping Wii third party titles fail is that the other Console owners want comfort in knowing that games won't stop being made for their platforms. All the PS3 vs 360 changes the moment Wii is involved to become Wii vs HD.

Third Parties flocked to the PS1 from Nintendo back in the day under many of the same circumstances facing the PS3..and lesser extent of the 360. PS3 is in a strange situation because it is almost dependent on the 360 and plagued by it.

I may be alone in thining this but I don't think this gen is going to end as early as everyone thinks it is, and I also think that just like the NES the third parties will be more visible on Wii toward the latter half of this gen.

Will Wii get the kind of third party support PS2 had? probably not, but also some third parties that were around during that gen might not be around by the time this gen closes, or at the very least bought out by some bigger 3rd party conglomerate.

I tend to disagree.
The whole hardcore/casual segregation is what has allowed a third party like Activision to dominate this gen.

They understand well what each segment of the market wants and have managed to deliver the top selling third party games in both segments.

CoD for the hardcore, GH for the casuals... 

And they are very successfull doing so, although if you look at those 2 franchises, the hardcore one (CoD) is actually the one that is experiencing the most growth..

If by dominate you mean bleed money from their console gaming division, and the only reason they're a profitable company is because of World of Warcaft; a massively multiplayer online roleplaying game designed to appeal more to both the "Casual" and "Hardcore" players of the genre, with graphics (roughly) on par with a Wii game because they focused on accessable and deep gameplay and a good art style rather than fancy technology.



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Arius Dion on 16 July 2009
HappySqurriel said:
Ail said:
Arius Dion said:
The whole Hardcore Casual thinking is exactly the sort of narrowminded and limiting viewpoint that has ccasued many third parties to lose money in the first place. Talk about demographics and market just adds to the confusion and causes further tp's have success on Wii evade them. Even with Bioware talking like they haven't "figured the Wii out" it isn't rocket science.

I don't recall the whole casual/hardcore talk during the NES era and beyond. Maybe heard murmurs during the PS2 era, but nothing like it is now. I think its reall just viral marketing really and an attempt to have a segmented gaming industry. The heart of this OP, the heart of the Wii hate, the heart of hoping Wii third party titles fail is that the other Console owners want comfort in knowing that games won't stop being made for their platforms. All the PS3 vs 360 changes the moment Wii is involved to become Wii vs HD.

Third Parties flocked to the PS1 from Nintendo back in the day under many of the same circumstances facing the PS3..and lesser extent of the 360. PS3 is in a strange situation because it is almost dependent on the 360 and plagued by it.

I may be alone in thining this but I don't think this gen is going to end as early as everyone thinks it is, and I also think that just like the NES the third parties will be more visible on Wii toward the latter half of this gen.

Will Wii get the kind of third party support PS2 had? probably not, but also some third parties that were around during that gen might not be around by the time this gen closes, or at the very least bought out by some bigger 3rd party conglomerate.

I tend to disagree.
The whole hardcore/casual segregation is what has allowed a third party like Activision to dominate this gen.

They understand well what each segment of the market wants and have managed to deliver the top selling third party games in both segments.

CoD for the hardcore, GH for the casuals... 

And they are very successfull doing so, although if you look at those 2 franchises, the hardcore one (CoD) is actually the one that is experiencing the most growth..

If by dominate you mean bleed money from their console gaming division, and the only reason they're a profitable company is because of World of Warcaft; a massively multiplayer online roleplaying game designed to appeal more to both the "Casual" and "Hardcore" players of the genre, with graphics (roughly) on par with a Wii game because they focused on accessable and deep gameplay and a good art style rather than fancy technology.

So CoD is hardcore and Guitar Hero is Casual? What if someone plays Guitar Hero excessively and is an expert at following the patterns and someone periodically plays a mission every now and again in CoD? What I'm trying to say is those words casual and hardcore are how you play the game not the games themselves, IMO.

Accessibilty is key, you want an experienced gamer to have enough content and challenge to hook them, and equally for the less experienced player to have content and challenge to hook them. Easier said than done of course, but games like Wii Sports, WoW, Mario Kart, You can even throw Halo in there. I think gamers of all skill levels and whatnot all want to have the same basic thing; to be entertained.



Bet between Slimbeast and Arius Dion about Wii sales 2009:


If the Wii sells less than 20 million in 2009 (as defined by VGC sales between week ending 3d Jan 2009 to week ending 4th Jan 2010) Slimebeast wins and get to control Arius Dion's sig for 1 month.

If the Wii sells more than 20 million in 2009 (as defined above) Arius Dion wins and gets to control Slimebeast's sig for 1 month.

BMaker11 on 16 July 2009

Off Topic

I went to Disc Replay and saw a Vader Nintendo DS. I'm gonna get it. And a PSP-3000, I'm gonna get that too



Ail on 16 July 2009
HappySqurriel said:
Ail said:
Arius Dion said:
The whole Hardcore Casual thinking is exactly the sort of narrowminded and limiting viewpoint that has ccasued many third parties to lose money in the first place. Talk about demographics and market just adds to the confusion and causes further tp's have success on Wii evade them. Even with Bioware talking like they haven't "figured the Wii out" it isn't rocket science.

I don't recall the whole casual/hardcore talk during the NES era and beyond. Maybe heard murmurs during the PS2 era, but nothing like it is now. I think its reall just viral marketing really and an attempt to have a segmented gaming industry. The heart of this OP, the heart of the Wii hate, the heart of hoping Wii third party titles fail is that the other Console owners want comfort in knowing that games won't stop being made for their platforms. All the PS3 vs 360 changes the moment Wii is involved to become Wii vs HD.

Third Parties flocked to the PS1 from Nintendo back in the day under many of the same circumstances facing the PS3..and lesser extent of the 360. PS3 is in a strange situation because it is almost dependent on the 360 and plagued by it.

I may be alone in thining this but I don't think this gen is going to end as early as everyone thinks it is, and I also think that just like the NES the third parties will be more visible on Wii toward the latter half of this gen.

Will Wii get the kind of third party support PS2 had? probably not, but also some third parties that were around during that gen might not be around by the time this gen closes, or at the very least bought out by some bigger 3rd party conglomerate.

I tend to disagree.
The whole hardcore/casual segregation is what has allowed a third party like Activision to dominate this gen.

They understand well what each segment of the market wants and have managed to deliver the top selling third party games in both segments.

CoD for the hardcore, GH for the casuals... 

And they are very successfull doing so, although if you look at those 2 franchises, the hardcore one (CoD) is actually the one that is experiencing the most growth..

If by dominate you mean bleed money from their console gaming division, and the only reason they're a profitable company is because of World of Warcaft; a massively multiplayer online roleplaying game designed to appeal more to both the "Casual" and "Hardcore" players of the genre, with graphics (roughly) on par with a Wii game because they focused on accessable and deep gameplay and a good art style rather than fancy technology.

 

Before you start making statements like this you need to learn to read a company's fiscal report. I know it's standard behavior on these forums to post random stuff without checking your facts but still.....

Last I checked both side of Activision's business were hugely profitable.

 

For the 12 months ended December 31st 2008 :

 

Non-GAAP Comparable Basis Segment Operating Income (Loss)  in millions:

Activision / Blizzard / Others

$ 469 $   / 704 $    / 27 

 

Straight out of their financial report....

 

PS : Thanks for explaining me what Wow is, I mean I have only spend like 220 days of rl life playing it the last 4 years...).



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

HappySqurriel on 16 July 2009
Ail said:
HappySqurriel said:
Ail said:
Arius Dion said:
The whole Hardcore Casual thinking is exactly the sort of narrowminded and limiting viewpoint that has ccasued many third parties to lose money in the first place. Talk about demographics and market just adds to the confusion and causes further tp's have success on Wii evade them. Even with Bioware talking like they haven't "figured the Wii out" it isn't rocket science.

I don't recall the whole casual/hardcore talk during the NES era and beyond. Maybe heard murmurs during the PS2 era, but nothing like it is now. I think its reall just viral marketing really and an attempt to have a segmented gaming industry. The heart of this OP, the heart of the Wii hate, the heart of hoping Wii third party titles fail is that the other Console owners want comfort in knowing that games won't stop being made for their platforms. All the PS3 vs 360 changes the moment Wii is involved to become Wii vs HD.

Third Parties flocked to the PS1 from Nintendo back in the day under many of the same circumstances facing the PS3..and lesser extent of the 360. PS3 is in a strange situation because it is almost dependent on the 360 and plagued by it.

I may be alone in thining this but I don't think this gen is going to end as early as everyone thinks it is, and I also think that just like the NES the third parties will be more visible on Wii toward the latter half of this gen.

Will Wii get the kind of third party support PS2 had? probably not, but also some third parties that were around during that gen might not be around by the time this gen closes, or at the very least bought out by some bigger 3rd party conglomerate.

I tend to disagree.
The whole hardcore/casual segregation is what has allowed a third party like Activision to dominate this gen.

They understand well what each segment of the market wants and have managed to deliver the top selling third party games in both segments.

CoD for the hardcore, GH for the casuals... 

And they are very successfull doing so, although if you look at those 2 franchises, the hardcore one (CoD) is actually the one that is experiencing the most growth..

If by dominate you mean bleed money from their console gaming division, and the only reason they're a profitable company is because of World of Warcaft; a massively multiplayer online roleplaying game designed to appeal more to both the "Casual" and "Hardcore" players of the genre, with graphics (roughly) on par with a Wii game because they focused on accessable and deep gameplay and a good art style rather than fancy technology.

 

Before you start making statements like this you need to learn to read a company's fiscal report. I know it's standard behavior on these forums to post random stuff without checking your facts but still.....

Last I checked both side of Activision's business were hugely profitable.

 

For the 12 months ended December 31st 2008 :

 

Non-GAAP Comparable Basis Segment Operating Income (Loss)  in millions:

Activision / Blizzard / Others

$ 469 $   / 704 $    / 27 

 

Straight out of their financial report....

 

PS : Thanks for explaining me what Wow is, I mean I have only spend like 220 days of rl life playing it the last 4 years...).

The last yearly financial statement from Activision Blizzard is financial 2008 which has their total operating income at $3.026 Billion and their operating expenses at $3.259 billion for an operating loss of $233 Million dollars ... Certainly, they had a massive gross profit of over $1.187 Billion (the numbers you're looking at), but after the massive expense of marketing and developing (future) games they lost money.

http://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:ATVI&fstype=ii



Ail on 16 July 2009
HappySqurriel said:
Ail said:
HappySqurriel said:
Ail said:
Arius Dion said:
The whole Hardcore Casual thinking is exactly the sort of narrowminded and limiting viewpoint that has ccasued many third parties to lose money in the first place. Talk about demographics and market just adds to the confusion and causes further tp's have success on Wii evade them. Even with Bioware talking like they haven't "figured the Wii out" it isn't rocket science.

I don't recall the whole casual/hardcore talk during the NES era and beyond. Maybe heard murmurs during the PS2 era, but nothing like it is now. I think its reall just viral marketing really and an attempt to have a segmented gaming industry. The heart of this OP, the heart of the Wii hate, the heart of hoping Wii third party titles fail is that the other Console owners want comfort in knowing that games won't stop being made for their platforms. All the PS3 vs 360 changes the moment Wii is involved to become Wii vs HD.

Third Parties flocked to the PS1 from Nintendo back in the day under many of the same circumstances facing the PS3..and lesser extent of the 360. PS3 is in a strange situation because it is almost dependent on the 360 and plagued by it.

I may be alone in thining this but I don't think this gen is going to end as early as everyone thinks it is, and I also think that just like the NES the third parties will be more visible on Wii toward the latter half of this gen.

Will Wii get the kind of third party support PS2 had? probably not, but also some third parties that were around during that gen might not be around by the time this gen closes, or at the very least bought out by some bigger 3rd party conglomerate.

I tend to disagree.
The whole hardcore/casual segregation is what has allowed a third party like Activision to dominate this gen.

They understand well what each segment of the market wants and have managed to deliver the top selling third party games in both segments.

CoD for the hardcore, GH for the casuals... 

And they are very successfull doing so, although if you look at those 2 franchises, the hardcore one (CoD) is actually the one that is experiencing the most growth..

If by dominate you mean bleed money from their console gaming division, and the only reason they're a profitable company is because of World of Warcaft; a massively multiplayer online roleplaying game designed to appeal more to both the "Casual" and "Hardcore" players of the genre, with graphics (roughly) on par with a Wii game because they focused on accessable and deep gameplay and a good art style rather than fancy technology.

 

Before you start making statements like this you need to learn to read a company's fiscal report. I know it's standard behavior on these forums to post random stuff without checking your facts but still.....

Last I checked both side of Activision's business were hugely profitable.

 

For the 12 months ended December 31st 2008 :

 

Non-GAAP Comparable Basis Segment Operating Income (Loss)  in millions:

Activision / Blizzard / Others

$ 469 $   / 704 $    / 27 

 

Straight out of their financial report....

 

PS : Thanks for explaining me what Wow is, I mean I have only spend like 220 days of rl life playing it the last 4 years...).

The last yearly financial statement from Activision Blizzard is financial 2008 which has their total operating income at $3.026 Billion and their operating expenses at $3.259 billion for an operating loss of $233 Million dollars ... Certainly, they had a massive gross profit of over $1.187 Billion (the numbers you're looking at), but after the massive expense of marketing and developing (future) games they lost money.

http://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:ATVI&fstype=ii

The difference btw the 2 numbers wasn't marketing or development of future games.

It was defered revenue and cost of the merger for 90% you can find that information inside the report.

They have started defering a significant portion of the revenue for online game to a later date ( they take the cash but don't count it yet in the balance sheet).

The statement you listed is the GAAP financials which is lacking all that defered revenue... The numbers I listed are Non GAAP operating incomes ( not gross income).

You can find most of the financial stuff on Activision investor portion of their web site..



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !