Samus Aran said: ^ A gimmick this late in gen will never take off...

I thought motion controls weren't a gimmick. Or are they just not a gimmick for the Wii? Or WAS is a gimmick for the Wii that just stuck with people?

Either way, I was just tossing that notion out there. He said there'd be an "even playing field graphically with motion controls in 2010". Exactly when Natal and PS-Mote are coming out

txrattlesnake said: For those that are making comments like "With PS3 and 360 now going to have motion control, then we're not really going to see much a jump in graphics next gen." Actually, it is true that Sony and Microsoft do seem to be embracing the motion tech philosophy in an attempt to increase their systems sales; however, that goes against many of the ideas of customers that have bought PS3 or 360 so far. Many people that bought those systems so far did so because they enjoy much better graphics in their console but they aren't rich enough to be able to go out and buy pcs every couple of years to keep up with the major jumps in pc graphics. So what happens to the roughly 50% of gamers that prefer better graphics to better controls in their games when the next gen rolls around if Sony and Microsoft aren't trying to have consoles that can hang with some pcs in the graphics department for the next five years? It could leave the market wide open for those that want to make systems capable of much better graphics as occurred when 3DO entered the market ( and 3DO could have become a much bigger player in the industry if Sony and Sega's own super graphics machines weren't released so close to the 3DO's release).

 

I really don't think next gen will see a huge graphical leap for several reasons :

 

- Graphics are getting to the point that they are good enough ( you woudn't get the same kind of leap you got from PS1 to PS2 or PS2 to Xbox360/PS3)

- Enhancing graphics is going to enhance development costs again

- We are not anymore in a situation where a huge number of gamers are playing games with a lot better graphics on the PC right now.

 

Sure you can get better on the PC right now except

- The number of PC owners owning those graphical powerhouse PC isn't that huge

- There aren't many games developed for the PC to take advantage of those graphics anyway ( and with develpment costs and piracy this ain't going to change a lot, heck the next 2 big games to be released (SC2 and D3) aren't going to be graphic powerhouses...

- The difference between those graphics and current best attainable on console isn't that huge

 

Most likely the transition to the next gen will be a lot smoother and will feature  things like new controls schemes, highly increased on-board memory in consoles ( most likely 2Gb+), slightly more powerfull processors and improved storage devices ( to support digital downloads).

Well many third party games don't sell big numbers on Wii, the devs then blame the audience and simply say only grandma's and little kids play Wii. True Wii is more popular than PS3 or 360 among those people but the real problem is third parties aren't producing solid core games on Wii to warrant a purchase. For example Medal of Honor Heroes 2 on Wii has potential but fails big time due to extreme blandness and glitches (melee attacks aren't even recognized online), point is Wii is flooded with mediocre attempts at core games but has very few well executed ones. Monster Hunter 3, Red Steel 2, Spyborgs and Crystal Bearers are around the corner though. :D

BMaker11 said: Samus Aran said: ^ A gimmick this late in gen will never take off... I thought motion controls weren't a gimmick. Or are they just not a gimmick for the Wii? Or WAS is a gimmick for the Wii that just stuck with people? Either way, I was just tossing that notion out there. He said there'd be an "even playing field graphically with motion controls in 2010". Exactly when Natal and PS-Mote are coming out

@ Samus Aran: Yeah I'm not sure you can call motion controls a "gimmick" cause other platforms adopted the idea late, while the penetration of Sony's & Microsoft's motion tech may not raise above niche this gen, if they do like I'm suspecting and go with these controls schemes as they're primary interfaces then definitely you will see a even playing field next gen, as Nintendo stated many times before that with the adoption of HD their next console will output HD as well.

 

@Bmaker11: We have to see how serious Microsoft & Sony are about changing their interface, I believe Microsoft will go ALL IN, but Sony I'm not so sure they are willing to call that bet. I mean look everyone seen the hell Nintendo caught with changing their control scheme, sure the blow will be lessen for MS & Sony cause with the success of Nintendo it's to be expected, but do they REALLY want to alienate the core gamers they built their marketshare with?

@Ail: we're here man!!! *points eye level*

SnowFlow said: Well many third party games don't sell big numbers on Wii, the devs then blame the audience and simply say only grandma's and little kids play Wii. True Wii is more popular than PS3 or 360 among those people but the real problem is third parties aren't producing solid core games on Wii to warrant a purchase. For example Medal of Honor Heroes 2 on Wii has potential but fails big time due to extreme blandness and glitches (melee attacks aren't even recognized online), point is Wii is flooded with mediocre attempts at core games but has very few well executed ones. Monster Hunter 3, Red Steel 2, Spyborgs and Crystal Bearers are around the corner though. :D

 

If there was really a huge demand for those titles on the system the less bad of the title in that genre would sell a lot and that's not really the case...

 

Look at the first 18 months released on the HD consoles, some games that really were just average sold a tonn of units because there was a huge demand for the genre they belonged to and there weren't any other title around ( Resistance sold 3 million units or so on PS3 and really it's not any groundbreaking FPS..)

For myself, there are already far more games on Wii that I want than I can even play, so I have no complaint about lack of support.

But the OP is right. 3rd parties have created a reality that states that if you want to play 'core' games you must own a HD console. So many Wii owners have been forced to get a PS360 as well (or PC but gaming PCs are just stupid expensive now and not cost justifible) for core games. Therefore there simply is no longer any need to put core games on Wii.

Outside of core games Wii is very, very well supported by 3rd parties indeed. In fact Wii has a lot more titles coming out every month than PS3 & 360. Wii generates more money for 3rd parties as a whole than PS3/360. Games on Wii can sell for years after release - a extreme rarity on HD consoles. Wii has a lot more support by small publishers than HD consoles ever will. Wii caters to a lot of audiences that HD consoles simply don't have or serve poorly.

So Wii does have great 3rd party support and will continue to. Epic, Valve and some others may totally ignore Wii, as it's not their audience and they are not interested in expanding their audience and that's fine. Unfortunate, but fine.

I don't see that changing with a Wii HD either. Sure, Wii HD would get a lot of ports of HD games since it'd be cheap to do but would get no specific love beyond what it's getting now.

BMaker11 said: Samus Aran said: ^ A gimmick this late in gen will never take off... I thought motion controls weren't a gimmick. Or are they just not a gimmick for the Wii? Or WAS is a gimmick for the Wii that just stuck with people? Either way, I was just tossing that notion out there. He said there'd be an "even playing field graphically with motion controls in 2010". Exactly when Natal and PS-Mote are coming out

It's a gimmick because not a lot of games will use it and it doesn't come packaged with the consoles. I fail to see how you can use the motion of Sony in core games and the same goes with Natal.

 

Some Xbox360 owners say playing the wii looks retarded, well how the fuck do you look then if you say bam to shoot and things like that LOL.

Ail said: txrattlesnake said: For those that are making comments like "With PS3 and 360 now going to have motion control, then we're not really going to see much a jump in graphics next gen." Actually, it is true that Sony and Microsoft do seem to be embracing the motion tech philosophy in an attempt to increase their systems sales; however, that goes against many of the ideas of customers that have bought PS3 or 360 so far. Many people that bought those systems so far did so because they enjoy much better graphics in their console but they aren't rich enough to be able to go out and buy pcs every couple of years to keep up with the major jumps in pc graphics. So what happens to the roughly 50% of gamers that prefer better graphics to better controls in their games when the next gen rolls around if Sony and Microsoft aren't trying to have consoles that can hang with some pcs in the graphics department for the next five years? It could leave the market wide open for those that want to make systems capable of much better graphics as occurred when 3DO entered the market ( and 3DO could have become a much bigger player in the industry if Sony and Sega's own super graphics machines weren't released so close to the 3DO's release).   I really don't think next gen will see a huge graphical leap for several reasons :   - Graphics are getting to the point that they are good enough ( you woudn't get the same kind of leap you got from PS1 to PS2 or PS2 to Xbox360/PS3) - Enhancing graphics is going to enhance development costs again - We are not anymore in a situation where a huge number of gamers are playing games with a lot better graphics on the PC right now.   Sure you can get better on the PC right now except - The number of PC owners owning those graphical powerhouse PC isn't that huge - There aren't many games developed for the PC to take advantage of those graphics anyway ( and with develpment costs and piracy this ain't going to change a lot, heck the next 2 big games to be released (SC2 and D3) aren't going to be graphic powerhouses... - The difference between those graphics and current best attainable on console isn't that huge   Most likely the transition to the next gen will be a lot smoother and will feature  things like new controls schemes, highly increased on-board memory in consoles ( most likely 2Gb+), slightly more powerfull processors and improved storage devices ( to support digital downloads).

Not that i would disagree here, but the thing with the graphics is the same every generation. Last gen we had "graphics so awesome that there's no room left to improve" and the same thing before that etc.
If next gen consoles would be able to create life like graphics, the same people who now are calling last gen visuals shit, would be calling this gen visuals shit. The graphics already have been on a "good enough" level for a while now, which is proved by the sales of previous generations consoles.

Also, Resistance was heavily bundled, as well as Motorstorm (the only bundled games at the time that were even remotedly of quality).

They're not getting the support simply because of differences between Wii hardware and demographics compared to 360/PS3/PC. Obviously the hardware isn't going to change this generation and judging by the reception of certain core games neither is the demographics.

As for those mentioning Japanese third-party games, I don't think that is the support that the original TC is getting at (which seems to be major third-party titles and for Japanese titles the list is still relatively small although Monster Hunter 3 and Dragon Quest X are notable).