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Forums - Microsoft - WHY DID MICROSOFT ENTER THE CONSOLE RACE?

KungKras on 14 July 2009
ironman said:
bdbdbd said:
ironman said:






bdbdbd said:




Yes i was. It's hard to find sub-1000€ Mac laptops, not to speak cheap custom-made laptops. So, i rather pay 75€ extra for a product i don't want, than 500€ extra for another product i don't want.

You obviously aren't getting it; Micro$ofts monopoly is in the PC market where they sell their operating systems to hardware vendors, who sell the operating systems bundled with the hardware. Since the majority of PC:s are sold new in a store, with Windows on them, there's not much market for rest of the OS manufacturers.

We could prove that M$ doesn't have a monopoly, by pointing out that anyone can write their own OS:s.

Just because something is possible, it doesn't mean that something is a real option.

How many times must I explain this to you. You were able to get that mac you wanted. Also, One can build a decent PC wiithout and OS for about $400. There are also Netbooxs with linux on them, sold in virtually all the big box retailers. So...explain to me again how MS has any sort of a Monopoly?



The netbooks all have Windows XP on them.

M$ has a monopoly, because Windows is the only OS that is sold to hardware vendors.

Monopoly doesn't mean that the one with monopoly would be the only option available, it's about the market share. Now, M$ doesn't have a monopoly in the sense, that it would be the only OS manufacturer, it has a virtual monopoly, where the other manufacturers play only a marginal part and M$ operates above the market level, where the consumer doesn't have an option to choose.

Basically the situation would be similar if all the car manufacturers used Bosch manufactured ABS units and ECU:s. The consumer would be able to buy any car they like, but the electronics would still come from one company and tuning shops would offer you Mitsubishi electronics, if you're not happy with what Bosch has to offer. Of course, it would kill the warranty if you did that. And, then you'd have a third option, a luxury car maker, that has its own electronics, but the car costs twice the amount of other manufacturers cars.

The amount of stupid in your post is making my head hurt!

Not all netbooks have Windows XP on them, Target, Walmart, and Best Buy all sell ones with a Linux OS on them. Hardware venders CHOOSE to sell PCs with Windows XP because it is the OS that sells the best, and is the easiest for everybody to use since virtually everybody has Windows experiance. Look at ACER, their netbooks have Windows XP on them, AND Linux on them, it's a choice, they are obviously NOT forced to only sell WinXP. 

On your second point, You obviously don't know what you are talking about since you can replace the ECU, spark plug wires, coil packs, spark plugs, ABS systems, and still not void your manufacturers warrenty. There is a law that protects the consumer in those situations, unless the manufacturer can prove that the replaced parts cause a falure to the OE (which is nearly impossible to to in court) then it cannot void the warrenty. Please check your facts before posting.

My god you are stubborn :S

He is saying that Microsofts monopoly lies in the pre-installed PC operating system business, how hard is that to understand? They have a monopoly because all the PC makers only install windows on their PCs. Don't come and tell me that I can buy a computer with Linux as the default OS without having to build it myself. If I want a (already built) PC I am litterarely forced to get a PC with Windows! That is a monopoly!



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ironman on 14 July 2009
KungKras said:
ironman said:
bdbdbd said:
ironman said:






bdbdbd said:




Yes i was. It's hard to find sub-1000€ Mac laptops, not to speak cheap custom-made laptops. So, i rather pay 75€ extra for a product i don't want, than 500€ extra for another product i don't want.

You obviously aren't getting it; Micro$ofts monopoly is in the PC market where they sell their operating systems to hardware vendors, who sell the operating systems bundled with the hardware. Since the majority of PC:s are sold new in a store, with Windows on them, there's not much market for rest of the OS manufacturers.

We could prove that M$ doesn't have a monopoly, by pointing out that anyone can write their own OS:s.

Just because something is possible, it doesn't mean that something is a real option.

How many times must I explain this to you. You were able to get that mac you wanted. Also, One can build a decent PC wiithout and OS for about $400. There are also Netbooxs with linux on them, sold in virtually all the big box retailers. So...explain to me again how MS has any sort of a Monopoly?



The netbooks all have Windows XP on them.

M$ has a monopoly, because Windows is the only OS that is sold to hardware vendors.

Monopoly doesn't mean that the one with monopoly would be the only option available, it's about the market share. Now, M$ doesn't have a monopoly in the sense, that it would be the only OS manufacturer, it has a virtual monopoly, where the other manufacturers play only a marginal part and M$ operates above the market level, where the consumer doesn't have an option to choose.

Basically the situation would be similar if all the car manufacturers used Bosch manufactured ABS units and ECU:s. The consumer would be able to buy any car they like, but the electronics would still come from one company and tuning shops would offer you Mitsubishi electronics, if you're not happy with what Bosch has to offer. Of course, it would kill the warranty if you did that. And, then you'd have a third option, a luxury car maker, that has its own electronics, but the car costs twice the amount of other manufacturers cars.

The amount of stupid in your post is making my head hurt!

Not all netbooks have Windows XP on them, Target, Walmart, and Best Buy all sell ones with a Linux OS on them. Hardware venders CHOOSE to sell PCs with Windows XP because it is the OS that sells the best, and is the easiest for everybody to use since virtually everybody has Windows experiance. Look at ACER, their netbooks have Windows XP on them, AND Linux on them, it's a choice, they are obviously NOT forced to only sell WinXP. 

On your second point, You obviously don't know what you are talking about since you can replace the ECU, spark plug wires, coil packs, spark plugs, ABS systems, and still not void your manufacturers warrenty. There is a law that protects the consumer in those situations, unless the manufacturer can prove that the replaced parts cause a falure to the OE (which is nearly impossible to to in court) then it cannot void the warrenty. Please check your facts before posting.

My god you are stubborn :S

He is saying that Microsofts monopoly lies in the pre-installed PC operating system business, how hard is that to understand? They have a monopoly because all the PC makers only install windows on their PCs. Don't come and tell me that I can buy a computer with Linux as the default OS without having to build it myself. If I want a (already built) PC I am litterarely forced to get a PC with Windows! That is a monopoly!




Past Avatar picture!!!

Don't forget your helmet there, Master Chief!

Heavenly_King on 14 July 2009

$$$$$$ MONEY $$$$$$



Open World-Survival-Game Days Gone

ironman on 14 July 2009
Heavenly_King said:
$$$$$$ MONEY $$$$$$

A very profound observation, yes all companies are in it for the money, it's a fanboy fantasy to think they aren't.



Past Avatar picture!!!

Don't forget your helmet there, Master Chief!

Zizzla_Rachet on 14 July 2009
ironman said:
KungKras said:
ironman said:
bdbdbd said:
ironman said:






bdbdbd said:




Yes i was. It's hard to find sub-1000€ Mac laptops, not to speak cheap custom-made laptops. So, i rather pay 75€ extra for a product i don't want, than 500€ extra for another product i don't want.

You obviously aren't getting it; Micro$ofts monopoly is in the PC market where they sell their operating systems to hardware vendors, who sell the operating systems bundled with the hardware. Since the majority of PC:s are sold new in a store, with Windows on them, there's not much market for rest of the OS manufacturers.

We could prove that M$ doesn't have a monopoly, by pointing out that anyone can write their own OS:s.

Just because something is possible, it doesn't mean that something is a real option.

How many times must I explain this to you. You were able to get that mac you wanted. Also, One can build a decent PC wiithout and OS for about $400. There are also Netbooxs with linux on them, sold in virtually all the big box retailers. So...explain to me again how MS has any sort of a Monopoly?



The netbooks all have Windows XP on them.

M$ has a monopoly, because Windows is the only OS that is sold to hardware vendors.

Monopoly doesn't mean that the one with monopoly would be the only option available, it's about the market share. Now, M$ doesn't have a monopoly in the sense, that it would be the only OS manufacturer, it has a virtual monopoly, where the other manufacturers play only a marginal part and M$ operates above the market level, where the consumer doesn't have an option to choose.

Basically the situation would be similar if all the car manufacturers used Bosch manufactured ABS units and ECU:s. The consumer would be able to buy any car they like, but the electronics would still come from one company and tuning shops would offer you Mitsubishi electronics, if you're not happy with what Bosch has to offer. Of course, it would kill the warranty if you did that. And, then you'd have a third option, a luxury car maker, that has its own electronics, but the car costs twice the amount of other manufacturers cars.

The amount of stupid in your post is making my head hurt!

Not all netbooks have Windows XP on them, Target, Walmart, and Best Buy all sell ones with a Linux OS on them. Hardware venders CHOOSE to sell PCs with Windows XP because it is the OS that sells the best, and is the easiest for everybody to use since virtually everybody has Windows experiance. Look at ACER, their netbooks have Windows XP on them, AND Linux on them, it's a choice, they are obviously NOT forced to only sell WinXP. 

On your second point, You obviously don't know what you are talking about since you can replace the ECU, spark plug wires, coil packs, spark plugs, ABS systems, and still not void your manufacturers warrenty. There is a law that protects the consumer in those situations, unless the manufacturer can prove that the replaced parts cause a falure to the OE (which is nearly impossible to to in court) then it cannot void the warrenty. Please check your facts before posting.

My god you are stubborn :S

He is saying that Microsofts monopoly lies in the pre-installed PC operating system business, how hard is that to understand? They have a monopoly because all the PC makers only install windows on their PCs. Don't come and tell me that I can buy a computer with Linux as the default OS without having to build it myself. If I want a (already built) PC I am litterarely forced to get a PC with Windows! That is a monopoly!

Thus proving that Windows is a Platform With hardware made by different makers...thus 360/PC are in reality Microsoft Exclusive games and they're making console exclusive a reality.



 



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ironman on 14 July 2009
Zizzla_Rachet said:
ironman said:
KungKras said:

My god you are stubborn :S

He is saying that Microsofts monopoly lies in the pre-installed PC operating system business, how hard is that to understand? They have a monopoly because all the PC makers only install windows on their PCs. Don't come and tell me that I can buy a computer with Linux as the default OS without having to build it myself. If I want a (already built) PC I am litterarely forced to get a PC with Windows! That is a monopoly!

Thus proving that Windows is a Platform With hardware made by different makers...thus 360/PC are in reality Microsoft Exclusive games and they're making console exclusive a reality.

You can buy an already custom built PC that has Linux on it for not much more than a mass produced PC that has Windows on it. But, since the games that are released for PC's cannot be run on any other platform than Windows (without special software), you would be correct. 360 games and PC games are MS specific, therefore they are an exclusive. After all, PSP games are considered an exclusive.  



Past Avatar picture!!!

Don't forget your helmet there, Master Chief!

bdbdbd on 15 July 2009

@Ironman: Sheesh, i think you just argue for the sake of arguing.

And no, you can't change ECU or ABS unit without losing the warranty, unless the parts have manufacturer licence. Good luck with "tuning" ECU and going to the car manufacturer complaining about the car not running right.



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

ironman on 15 July 2009
bdbdbd said:
@Ironman: Sheesh, i think you just argue for the sake of arguing.

And no, you can't change ECU or ABS unit without losing the warranty, unless the parts have manufacturer licence. Good luck with "tuning" ECU and going to the car manufacturer complaining about the car not running right.

lol, you got me!!! Oh, and I only argue when I'm right!

And yes, you can change the ECU and ABS units without voiding your warrentee. As long as the manufacturer cannot prove that those specific parts caused damage (and like I said before, it's very hard to do) your warrentee is still upheld. Now, as far as tuning goes, it is very easy to destroy the engine by changing settings. So yes, that usually voids the warranty. However, Tuning, and replacing are two very different things. You never said anything about tuning in your origional statment, so that has no place in this discussion.



Past Avatar picture!!!

Don't forget your helmet there, Master Chief!

bdbdbd on 15 July 2009
ironman said:






bdbdbd said:
@Ironman: Sheesh, i think you just argue for the sake of arguing.

And no, you can't change ECU or ABS unit without losing the warranty, unless the parts have manufacturer licence. Good luck with "tuning" ECU and going to the car manufacturer complaining about the car not running right.

lol, you got me!!! Oh, and I only argue when I'm right!


And yes, you can change the ECU and ABS units without voiding your warrentee. As long as the manufacturer cannot prove that those specific parts caused damage (and like I said before, it's very hard to do) your warrentee is still upheld. Now, as far as tuning goes, it is very easy to destroy the engine by changing settings. So yes, that usually voids the warranty. However, Tuning, and replacing are two very different things. You never said anything about tuning in your origional statment, so that has no place in this discussion.




They aren't even going to fix it if they notice you have a 3rd party ECU. All they say, is you should go to the guy who sold you the unit.

Well, in reality the ECU isn't changed, only the chip that includes the program for engine control (which is a blanck chip, until the chip, along with the engine program, is sold). Due to the nature of these chips, only tuning chips are available, if you didn't know.

In any case, the point still stands. When buying a car, you would have the option to buy whatever car you like, but not the option to choose between these parts, which is the case in computer market. For every other component in computers, the vendors have at least two suppliers, but for operating systems only one supplier. This is why M$ has its virtual monopoly -> Windows is de facto standard in computers.

Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

ironman on 15 July 2009

bdbdbd said:

ironman said:






bdbdbd said:
@Ironman: Sheesh, i think you just argue for the sake of arguing.

And no, you can't change ECU or ABS unit without losing the warranty, unless the parts have manufacturer licence. Good luck with "tuning" ECU and going to the car manufacturer complaining about the car not running right.

lol, you got me!!! Oh, and I only argue when I'm right!


And yes, you can change the ECU and ABS units without voiding your warrentee. As long as the manufacturer cannot prove that those specific parts caused damage (and like I said before, it's very hard to do) your warrentee is still upheld. Now, as far as tuning goes, it is very easy to destroy the engine by changing settings. So yes, that usually voids the warranty. However, Tuning, and replacing are two very different things. You never said anything about tuning in your origional statment, so that has no place in this discussion.



They aren't even going to fix it if they notice you have a 3rd party ECU. All they say, is you should go to the guy who sold you the unit.

Not true, if the problem is not ECU related then they will fix it. You can put in an aftermarket ECU that is tuned just like the factory one, it's called a replacement part.If you take them a car that has a tuned ECU in it, (in otherwords it doesn't have the factory settings on it) then no, they won't touch your car.


Well, in reality the ECU isn't changed, only the chip that includes the program for engine control (which is a blanck chip, until the chip, along with the engine program, is sold). Due to the nature of these chips, only tuning chips are available, if you didn't know.


See, now you are just talking about chipping the car...which is entirely different from replacing the ECU. And that is definately not covered by the warenty.

In any case, the point still stands. When buying a car, you would have the option to buy whatever car you like, but not the option to choose between these parts, which is the case in computer market. For every other component in computers, the vendors have at least two suppliers, but for operating systems only one supplier. This is why M$ has its virtual monopoly -> Windows is de facto standard in computers.

Yes, and my point still stands, You have the option to buy the parts you want in a PC as well as the OS. Most people choose Windows because that is what they are comfortable with. Venders have a plethera of Linux based OS to choose from, but since most people don't knopw much about Linux, they choose Windows. The point being, MS does not have a monopoly of any kind, and so far, you have failed to prove that they do. face it bro, the facts are on my side.

 



Past Avatar picture!!!

Don't forget your helmet there, Master Chief!