why does everyone ignore the argument that wii sports should count because if it wasn't there people would buy some other game? It's a game, it's sells fantastically without the bundle, and were it not bundled it would still sell fantastically in the US. If it wasn't in the bundle people would buy a different game that would be counted, so why is it excluded? Because it's not a high budget epic title? Nobody has argued against this yet.

The ironic thing is everyone goes crazy on the Wii side when you don't include a free game, and a $10 pack-in game.

If the Wii software sales are relying on free or, near-free games to drive software sales, thats not a very good sign.

What happens in the US when Wii Fit launches at $60 w/ the board?

On one hand, Play should be counted because it's bought, and Motorstorm, atleast a portion (ie, 80-90%) shouldn't be counted.

Still though, Nintendo moving 400k units and such a low # of software is just atrocious. The X360 is running away with US software sales, and no one can argue that. People are buying more $60 X360 games than $60 PS3 games, and $20-$50 Wii games by a huge margin.

mrstickball said: The ironic thing is everyone goes crazy on the Wii side when you don't include a free game, and a $10 pack-in game. If the Wii software sales are relying on free or, near-free games to drive software sales, thats not a very good sign. What happens in the US when Wii Fit launches at $60 w/ the board? On one hand, Play should be counted because it's bought, and Motorstorm, atleast a portion (ie, 80-90%) shouldn't be counted. Still though, Nintendo moving 400k units and such a low # of software is just atrocious. The X360 is running away with US software sales, and no one can argue that. People are buying more $60 X360 games than $60 PS3 games, and $20-$50 Wii games by a huge margin.

 

I'm not on any "side". I just think they should both be counted because it's the only viable way to do it. Because not all all 60 dollar games sell at 60... and not all budget games even sell at budget prices, some people oversell them and some people put them in bundle sales.  Software is software is softwar.

Counting pure numbers means nothing so you may as well actually you know, count the numbers.  It doesn't count revenue because of the above.  It doesn't count profit because of the above AND because you have no clue what the development costs are, if what one devleoper says is true. (which it may or may not... it was one guy.)  Then the Wii would need to sell around 50-75% as much software to generate as much profit as a 360 game since it costs on average half as much to make your average game.  (little more then 50%)

Counting the number of software units only tells you how many games people have, and it doesn't even do a good job with that because everybody has downloadable games which are basically untrackable. 

So what does a low number of names for the wii mean?  That right now they have more casual or "less hardcore" gamers.  Since we can combine these numbers with the survey that showed people with the wii actually were more afluent then people with the PS3 and 360.  So we know it's not a money issue.

PS3 softwares: Top 10 best selling games

Pos	Game	Console	Publisher	Score	Sales
1		Resistance: Fall of Man		Sony	8.10	1.74m
2		Motorstorm		Sony	7.80	1.32m
3		Need for Speed: Carbon		EA	5.66	0.58m
4		Call of Duty 3		Activision	6.27	0.50m
5		Madden NFL 08		EA	7.39	0.49m
6		Fight Night Round 3		EA	6.02	0.46m
7		Madden NFL 07		EA	5.66	0.44m
8		Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion		Take 2	7.25	0.43m
9		Everybodys Golf 5		Sony	6.35	0.35m
10		Dynasty Warriors Gundam		Namco Bandai Games America	5.50	0.35m

 There is a clearly difference between the 1st-2nd best selling games and the 3rd-10th. I'm surpriced that the difference isn't bigger! REALLY!!! Both Motorstorm and Resistance are bundled in Europe (in the PS3 Starter Pack), and there are nearly 2 millions PS3 units sold in EU. The PS3 Starter Pack is quite young, but not enough to be sold in less than a million copies...

Games > Resistance: Fall of Man

Game Over! says:
If you count this game as a bundled game in EU (PS3 Starter Pack includes Motorstorm, Resistance, 2 controllers and a PS3 ofc.) then you'll see that Resistance hasn't as good sales in % (as of console units sold) as Halo 3 (40-50% of all 360 owners got it) or even as Wii Play (over 50% of all Wii owners got it)... Just 33% of all PS3 owners got it, and it means that there doesn't exist a successful PS3 game yet, such as Wii Play or Halo 3 (you can't count bundled games like Wii Sports...)!
Posted on: 10/23/07, 16:33

 

Game Over! said: PS3 softwares: Top 10 best selling games Pos Game Console Publisher Score Sales 1 Resistance: Fall of Man Sony 8.10 1.74m 2 Motorstorm Sony 7.80 1.32m 3 Need for Speed: Carbon EA 5.66 0.58m 4 Call of Duty 3 Activision 6.27 0.50m 5 Madden NFL 08 EA 7.39 0.49m 6 Fight Night Round 3 EA 6.02 0.46m 7 Madden NFL 07 EA 5.66 0.44m 8 Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion Take 2 7.25 0.43m 9 Everybodys Golf 5 Sony 6.35 0.35m 10 Dynasty Warriors Gundam Namco Bandai Games America 5.50 0.35m There is a clearly difference between the 1st-2nd best selling games and the 3rd-10th. I'm surpriced that the difference isn't bigger! REALLY!!! Both Motorstorm and Resistance are bundled in Europe (in the PS3 Starter Pack), and there are nearly 2 millions PS3 units sold in EU. The PS3 Starter Pack is quite young, but not enough to be sold in less than a million copies... Games > Resistance: Fall of Man Game Over! says: If you count this game as a bundled game in EU (PS3 Starter Pack includes Motorstorm, Resistance, 2 controllers and a PS3 ofc.) then you'll see that Resistance hasn't as good sales in % (as of console units sold) as Halo 3 (40-50% of all 360 owners got it) or even as Wii Play (over 50% of all Wii owners got it)... Just 33% of all PS3 owners got it, and it means that there doesn't exist a successful PS3 game yet, such as Wii Play or Halo 3 (you can't count bundled games like Wii Sports...)! Posted on: 10/23/07, 16:33

 Sorry, but you can't probably see the sale numbers in this table. The table is unfortunately to wide... However, simply try THIS LINK to view the full version!

ioi said: I have to be consistent guys. If I'm going to list Super Mario World at 20 million, Sonic the Hedgehog 2 at 6 million, Super Mario Bros at 40 million, Gran Turismo 3 at 14 million and so on then I am also going to include Wii Sports bundle "sales", Motorstorm bundle sales, Daxter bundle sales and so on. I'm sure at some point in the future Wii Sports will not be packed-in with all new Wiis sold and may even surface as a stand-alone SKU. You only have to look to Japan, where both games are sold at a budget rate (same price as something like Brain Training I believe) and they are far and away the biggest sellers on Wii. To just remove sales for the West because they come bundled with a controller (which you pay extra for) and a console (ditto, although you have no choice) is insane, people still play those games and Japan has proven that they are easily the two most popular Wii titles. ALL bundled games are counted in sales. When Sony / Nintendo release "total software shipments" info on financial reports this includes bundle sales, same as when they report individual game shipments. NPD don't report the sales in their SOFTWARE reports, but if you get their full hardware data you have breakdowns per hardware SKU and therefore bundled game sales are counted along with the hardware. Just because they chose to do it that way doesn't mean they are right or wrong. If a retailer choses to create their own bundles then the software sales will show up in NPD software, it is only manufacturer bundles that do not. It is a grey area and I see no other way of tackling it. Those who suggest I am trying to paint Wii sales in a better light are seriously misguided and should really leave this site. Thanks ioi

So we should expect Forza 2 and Marvel Ultimate Alliance on 360 to rise soon as they are bundled with 360 in the US?  And then Forza 2 and Viva Pinata in Japan and Australlia?

Just curious...  Not trying to stir the pot...

I don't really care about which logic is applied...  I just think it should be applied evenly...  And if it is that's good enough for me... 

PS:  Might be a good feature on the site to exclude bundle sales through a filter going forward...

When I was little my parents used to buy my brothers and I about 3-4 video games EACH for the holidays, and only one for our birthdays.

So, During the year we had roughly 3 software contributions to the market. During the holiday season, the figures were more like 9-12. This includes most of my cousins, as well, in terms of figures.

We didn't have our own money, but we had our parents' money. And we got big games, games like 007, Super Metroid, Halo, X-Men Legends, Civ2, Alpha Centauri, etc etc, certainly hundreds more.

I say, wait until December AND January numbers are out, and see where software lies. September is supposedly a drought month anyway.

mrstickball said: The ironic thing is everyone goes crazy on the Wii side when you don't include a free game, and a $10 pack-in game. If the Wii software sales are relying on free or, near-free games to drive software sales, thats not a very good sign. What happens in the US when Wii Fit launches at $60 w/ the board? On one hand, Play should be counted because it's bought, and Motorstorm, atleast a portion (ie, 80-90%) shouldn't be counted. Still though, Nintendo moving 400k units and such a low # of software is just atrocious. The X360 is running away with US software sales, and no one can argue that. People are buying more $60 X360 games than $60 PS3 games, and $20-$50 Wii games by a huge margin.

 Near-Free software sales for Nintendo just means better efficiency in producing games.  The hardware peripherals and console are much cheaper to produce, and overpriced.  Bundling Wii Sports with a Wii console can be taken not as cheap software, but cheap hardware too.  It goes both ways.  While you point is a good one, I'd have to diagree simply with the fact that hardware for Nintendo is cheaper than list price, therefore a $10 increase and a $10 game can still be considered up to a $20 game.

What's wrong with a $20 game, anyway?  If you consider Wii Sports itself, with a $250 Wii bundle price...  we all know a Wii console does not cost $250 to get on to a shelf.  Not sure how much it really costs (link) but just glancing around I've seen $200 as of a year ago.

TECHNICALLY you could say Wii Sports is a $50 game.

(Not directed at mrstickball, but everyone else running around with can chew on that for a while.)

This is simple, Wii Sports/Play is software. Someone gave money and in return were given the game(s), sometimes with some extras like a console or a controller. So it's software, and it was a sale = Software Sale.

@DMG--you are a troll trying to sound smarter then you are--your logic is flawed at its very core considering Wii Play (side note:pool sim is very good=10$ right there)

face it to get a "fair" judgement on this we would need to include all games sold for the two systems--weither its a bundle, download, or used purchase--and since that cant be done any time soon i have to just point to fishy joe's sig