By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Next-gen console war: The verdict by mcvuk.com

LordTheNightKnight on 06 October 2007

MikeB said:
@ LordTheNightKnight

"very powerful" =/= "strongest console". He wasn't arguing that the SNES was a graphical powerhouse. Again, you are countering a point not even made.


Reread the comment again:

In fact, there is only once in history that the strongest console one the generation and that's the SNES

I was discussing your comment on that it wasn't very powerful. He did not write that the SNES was very powerful. He wrote that it was the stronges. What part of that makes you think one is the same as the other.

It was designed to be cheap,

Again, since he did not claim it was very powerful, it doesn't matter if Nintendo spent a lot on the system.

its CPU was about half the speed of the Mega Drive

Wow! I bet that processor should be given a special name for being so fast! Sega should call it "Blast Processing"! Thank you for letting us know about this obscure fact, that we apparently didn't know about 16 years ago! [/sarcasm]

That comment just made you look like a noob. We already know about those speeds. Nintendo used chips on the carts to compensate, since they knew carts would advance when the system wouldn't (although it backfired with the N64).

and the lowest specced Amigas (from 1985).

Are you bringing up a PC? The Amiga is a PC. naznatips specifically wrote "console". We all know the Amiga could best the 16-bit systems, but it also cost five times as much. Nintendo designed the SNES to be affordable.

The Snes had nice graphics, but nothing really groundbreaking for the time like the Amiga offered during the 80s, especially not in 1992 when the console was finally released in Europe and Australia.

So "strongest" console also means it's groundbreaking? I didn't know that! They should put it in the thesaurus![/extreme sarcasm]

 

His only, ONLY point was that the SNES was the strongest console, as in game system that didn't have its own monitor, as would a PC, handheld, or arcase machine (hence why the Neo-Geo) is a grey area. Strongest in this case means the graphical output is the greatest numerically. NOTHING ELSE. We know the Mega Drive comes close. If something is the strongest by a nose, it's still the strongest.

Is this why you don't like the thought of the 360 even being close to the PS3, because it magically can't be the strongest if it's not strongest by leaps and bounds? This is what your arguments agains the SNES seem to be hinging on.

The definition of the word "strongest" doesn't mean it has to be by a spread.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

Around the Network
sieanr on 06 October 2007

Some of you guys seem to drag on about FMV, FMV I don't see a problem with, if it's well implemented into the game it can add greatly to the entertaiment experience.


Learn the difference between cutscenes and FMV games.

Maybe I should post a bunch of screens from those games so you can see how shitty they were, even though it has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

Actualy, here are some fun screens of a game.

Inferior Amiga version of Ghoust n Ghouls


Superior x68000 version released in 1987


Clearly these screenshots demonstrate the inferiority of the paltry Amiga hardware. Not to mention this definitly contributes to the discussion at hand, and is no way meant to reinforce a point that no one cares about.


But what do you know... MikeB didn't answer a lot of my post, even after I said I'd start keeping track of things he doesn't answer. So, here we go again

The Neo-Geo was designed as Arcade hardware from the outset, selling it at home was secondary and it was never seriously considered for that role. If you want to use the Neo-Geo as an example then why not bring up the Capcom CPS changer?

Plenty of other consoles and computers have made its way into arcades, but that doesn't mean shit as far as sales go. The Dreamcast may have failed as a console, but the Naomi arcade board derived from its hardware has been very sucessful, just like the successor derived from Naomi, Atomiswave.

IMO both those boards are more impressive thanks to the variety and quality of games released and generally being more successful than Amiga arcade boards, but that means about as much to this argument as "1 million sold consoles".

-

Adventure games took up space because of Audio, but thats not something the SNES or MD could play back on their own (synthesized sound and all). Besides, I think the Sega CD proved that outside of a few examples, CDs werent a good match for those systems.

Besides, I could have sworn you mentioned some Amiga game that came on a floppy, but via random levels offered "unlimited" gameplay. Call me crazy, but I'd say you refuted your own argument in another post.

Regardless, its a bullshit argument and you know it, but you keep it up for no apparent reason(other than the Amiga had CD and was thus superior?) Not to mention, you call carts your favorite part of the SNES in this thread...

-

But my point is that the SNES/MD put a major dent into the Amigas gaming market - due to both the lower price and the problem of piracy on the platform. Really, you can argue that the other problems hurt the brand more but you cant argue that developers moving to consoles wasn't an issue.

-

Arguably the dumbest thing you've ever posted, next to whats in my sig. In fact, I think I have something new to accompany that statement.

Differing opinions are fine, but saying something that outlandish, especially when it flies in the face of popular opinion is rediculous. Now, I could say that all the Amiga games were trash Euro centric titles that ripped off bigger, and better games from America and Japan. Thats my opinion, so you should have no grounds to talk, right? I can provide stupid reasoning for this as well.

But I digress...

Really, how can you ignore some of the best RPGs ever made, whcih were exclusive to the SNES. How can you ignore the massive amount of games Square, Capcom, Enix, Konami, ect realeased on the platform. How can you ignore some of the highest rated games of their day, many of them third party, on the SNES. Its like saying the PS2 was cool thanks to the Sony published games, ignoring FF, DMC, ect.

-

Wait a sec, you're saying its a bad comparison because the Amiga is old? What about all those post you made comparing the Amiga to the PS3, how the hell do you justiy that? IBM PR?

I thought you would enjoy attributing the design of the SNES to the Amgia, especially give how the SNES went on to sell far, far more than the Amiga.

/ Tha above are being posted for a second time

So he was inspired by how shitty the Amiga version of Dragons Lair was? Great argument for the Amiga....

And why is it a big deal about how the game was made? Does the fact that it was made on the Amiga somehow make up for the MS-DOS version? Do you really think about which platform a game was developed on when it was made - because if so you must not enjoy games that much.

-

Yes it does.

The Neo-Geo was designed as Arcade hardware from the outset, selling it at home was secondary and it was never seriously considered for that role. If you want to use the Neo-Geo as an example then why not bring up the Capcom CPS changer?

Plenty of other consoles and computers have made its way into arcades, but that doesn't mean shit as far as sales go. The Dreamcast may have failed as a console, but the Naomi arcade board derived from its hardware has been very sucessful, just like the successor derived from Naomi, Atomiswave.

IMO both those boards are more impressive thanks to the variety and quality of games released and generally being more successful than Amiga arcade boards, but that means about as much to this argument as "1 million sold consoles".

-

I'd like to hear an explanation as to how your post answers and refutes his claim of game variety?

As far as I can tell, he said the SNES killed what was left of the amiga as developers flocked to a system that was free of piracy. Sure, its gaming prime was over but the system was still in millions of homes and had plenty of games past 1990. I slightly disagree in the sense that I think the MD hurt the Amiga more, especially early on, but basically its correct - the Amiga wasn't a viable platform later in life due to piracy, aging hardware and better options available to developers. - I'll add that this mean "most" developers, there are always some people making games for dead platforms.

-

I really dont want you to lose any credibility, so please address the rest of my points - namely that the SNES is far more similar in design to the Amiga than the PS3.

-

And how many games rendered at 512? Oh wait, you mean most were considerably lower res, even under 480.... this reminds me of Halo 3.

-

It had an official mouse and had tons of games that supported it, like Civilization.

-

This is from another thread, but I'd stil like a response
Do I have to pull up links to that thread?

As I explained then, and will explain now, I posted that link when you were posting BS diagrams yourself. To make my intent even more obvious, I posted, with that diagram, something to the effect of "I can post misleading info that takes things out of context as well".

Really, I dont see how I could have made that any more obvious and I cant see your "example" as anything more than a attempt to misconstrue what I said - probably in an attempt to avoid my other points. And all this comes from the man who claims flops is a great benchmark.....

/ The above are being posted for a THIRD time

In all fairness, he answered one point abovem but thats one out of many. Any bets on how long it takes him to answer these?



Leo-j said: If a dvd for a pc game holds what? Crysis at 3000p or something, why in the world cant a blu-ray disc do the same?

ssj12 said: Player specific decoders are nothing more than specialized GPUs. Gran Turismo is the trust driving simulator of them all. 

"Why do they call it the xbox 360? Because when you see it, you'll turn 360 degrees and walk away" 

andrewpeirce on 06 October 2007

Really what consoles need are
low prices- games and
quantity of decent/crap games (just look the DS :P)
at least one great game in each genre
community
and hopefully hype
also special features can make or break a console

lets look at what each console has

DS
low prices- yes
quantity of mediocre/crap-yes
1 good game in each genre- outside of fighting and Srpg, yes, though there is one mediocre SRPG,a nd a good one is coming
community- wifi with friends and online. defintly yes
hype- it did, but the hype has faded
special features- touch screen really helps

PSP
low price-comparitvly no
quantity of mediocre crap- not really...
one good game in each genre- imo yes.
community- online is kinda weak, no one seems to have one (at least for me) strong hacker community though
hype- has it due to PSP slim
special features- triple edged sword. people will buy it as a player/homebrew hacking device, but will not buy games. people who want it for games but who don't need the media probably won't buy it. People who want games and media will love it...

so what is most important? I say hype in the short run, endless games (good or crap) is very important, price is very important, and having a few good games in every genre AS EARLY IN THE SYSTEMS LIFE AS POSSIBLE is key



MikeB on 06 October 2007

@ LordTheNightKnight

So "strongest" console also means it's groundbreaking? I didn't know that! They should put it in the thesaurus


If "strongest" relates to sales, the the Snes was a strong console, but was outperformed by the PSX and PS2.

I think it was clear he was talking about specifications, as he already acknowledged he forgot about the Neo Geo. Other people have read the comment the way I did. I don't understand what you are upset about...

as in game system that didn't have its own monitor, as would a PC


With the Amiga you had the option to use an ordinary TV. Many people bought the Amiga 500 exclusively for its outstanding games for its time. For them it would be something like a PS3 expanded with keyboard and mouse. There were various low-end Amiga game bundles.


£299



£349



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

MikeB on 06 October 2007

@ sieanr

Inferior Amiga version of Ghoust n Ghouls


Many arcade games weren't well ported to the Amiga, but that had little to do with technicals. The games were designed for other hardware, the ports only needed to be good enough to make some additional sales. They didn't intend arcade lovers to buy an Amiga instead of putting their quarters in the arcade original.

Adventure games took up space because of Audio


Mostly due to graphics. In adventure games they usually designed new art for each location, in shooters and platformer mostly they reused game art from previous levels. For adventures including full speech usually CDs were used, but there was efficient speech technology available for the Amiga 500 (and original Amiga 1000).

For instance there was a small program called "say" included with these early systems which allowed written text to be spoken out by the Amiga in expressive female and male voices. Some early games used this approach, a similar better sounding speech engine was included in later A500 games, like the Valhalla series, allowing a 1,000 word vocabulary in 4,250k.



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

Around the Network
MikeB on 06 October 2007

@ sieanr

really dont want you to lose any credibility, so please address the rest of my points - namely that the SNES is far more similar in design to the Amiga than the PS3.


The Amiga was designed with a lot of forward thinking technically, IMO the PS3 is far more similar today in this regard.

It had an official mouse and had tons of games that supported it, like Civilization


Not tons of games, some and I like the keyboard to input things like city names and keyboard shortcuts for many different actions, hence I like the Amiga version better.

The above are being posted for a THIRD time


Feel free to post the fourth time, but IMO it's better suited for the original thread.

In all fairness, he answered one point abovem but thats one out of many. Any bets on how long it takes him to answer these?


Eh.... Next year!



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

LordTheNightKnight on 06 October 2007

MikeB said:
@ LordTheNightKnight

So "strongest" console also means it's groundbreaking? I didn't know that! They should put it in the thesaurus


If "strongest" relates to sales, the the Snes was a strong console, but was outperformed by the PSX and PS2.

I think it was clear he was talking about specifications, as he already acknowledged he forgot about the Neo Geo. Other people have read the comment the way I did. I don't understand what you are upset about...

as in game system that didn't have its own monitor, as would a PC


With the Amiga you had the option to use an ordinary TV. Many people bought the Amiga 500 exclusively for its outstanding games for its time. For them it would be like something like a PS3 expanded with keyboard and mouse. There were various low-end Amiga game bundles.


£299



£349


It's that you are comparing the SNES to PC systems, such as the Amiga, when his claim of strongest console is only compared to other home consoles. The Amiga is irrelevant to his comment.

Now sinear's comments on the Amiga are another matter, but nanzatips was not discussing PCs.

"With the Amiga you had the option to use an ordinary TV."

How does that change the fact that the Amiga had monitors? The Mega Drive and the SNES never had monitors, so a TV was the only option. That's part of what seperates them from PCs, but also handhelds and arcade machines.

"Many people bought the Amiga 500 exclusively for its outstanding games for its time."

 And a lot or gamers buy a PC soley for internet and gaming. That doesn't make them comparable to consoles. And so what if the 360 and PS3 blur the line? That doesn't make it fair to compare the processing power of the SNES to the Amiga.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

MikeB on 06 October 2007

@ LordTheNightKnight

How does that change the fact that the Amiga had monitors?


Although it's true that the monitors for the high-end Amigas could be connected to the lowend systems like the Amiga 500, you could also connect it to the Amiga CD32 dedicated games console, similarly you can connect monitors to the XBox 360 and PS3.



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

LordTheNightKnight on 06 October 2007
MikeB said:
@ LordTheNightKnight

How does that change the fact that the Amiga had monitors?


Although it's true that the monitors for the high-end Amigas could be connected to the lowend systems like the Amiga 500, you could also connect it to the Amiga CD32 dedicated games console, similarly you can connect monitors to the XBox 360 and PS3.

 Monitor use to today doesn't count, as the same plugs for them are being used more often. The Amiga could hook up to the TV, but barring special plugs, you HAD to hook up home consoles to TVs.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

MikeB on 06 October 2007

@ LordTheNightKnight

The Amiga could hook up to the TV, but barring special plugs, you HAD to hook up home consoles to TVs.


The Amiga 500 had a DB23M video connector to connect to monitors, as well as a RF connector to connect to ordinary TV sets.



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales