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xcot said:
ME is EXTREMELY BORING BEYOND COMPREHENSION imo. Gameplay was slow, talking was slow.


AND YOUR USE OF CAPITAL LETTERS means I have no interest in your viewpoint at all.  Also the gameplay wasn't particularly slow so perhaps you should have tried playing it faster instead of one button at a time.



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Citan said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Citan said:
slowmo said:
xcot said:
slowmo said:
JRPG's are standing still with no innovation and the storylines are the same rehashed crap we've seen for the last 15 years recycled, it is no conincidence we have not had a AAA JRPG yet this generation. WRPG's for me show variety and they're all a bit different, look at the choices you're given in games like Fallout 3, Mass Effect, Fable 2, etc.

Apologies for slating your favourite genre to the JRPG fans, surely you guys must see that something needs to change in the genre if it is to survive in the long term?


Correction, we haven't had an AAA jrpg on consoles because the japanese like many western developers are caught up with graphics.

Where the DS s really innovating in RPGs.

Its has great S-jrpgs, normal jrpgs, unique jrpgs like pokemon and twewy etc.


No, they're just becoming stale and boring following the same generic story line with very little innovation of the genre.  Mass Effect and Fall Out 3 had great graphics and both provided innovations to their chosen genre, thats from a new IP and a existing IP under control of a new dev too.  If JRPG's don't start to evolve soon then they'll die out, the problem is gamers need to get the JRPG developers to understand this and they seemingly aren't listening.

Yer a funny fella. Tell me what`s so special with the story in me and fallout.

Does it compare to Xenosaga`s mix of:


Robots, Science Fiction, 12-year old girls in swimsuits, Drama, action, comedy, sex, philosophy, love, hate, friendship and intertekstual references to Friedrich Nietzsche`s subjects, Carl Gustav Jung`s Analytical psychology, The Bibel, Jewish religion, German history and novels, Anime.

 

I think not, so before you judge Jrpg`s, read a book and check if there are any intertekstual references in your favourite wrpg`s. A good story is not easy to make. You have to be well read.

 



If you want to figure out why Mass Effects story is worlds beyond Final Fantasy, go buy the novels.

And Xenosaga?

I've heard very good things about Xenosaga and that it was like Chrono Trigger..which itself isn't the typical JRPG...based off of Western Sci-Fi ideas and have choice like a WRPG.



slowmo said:
Citan said:
slowmo said:
xcot said:
slowmo said:
JRPG's are standing still with no innovation and the storylines are the same rehashed crap we've seen for the last 15 years recycled, it is no conincidence we have not had a AAA JRPG yet this generation. WRPG's for me show variety and they're all a bit different, look at the choices you're given in games like Fallout 3, Mass Effect, Fable 2, etc.

Apologies for slating your favourite genre to the JRPG fans, surely you guys must see that something needs to change in the genre if it is to survive in the long term?


Correction, we haven't had an AAA jrpg on consoles because the japanese like many western developers are caught up with graphics.

Where the DS s really innovating in RPGs.

Its has great S-jrpgs, normal jrpgs, unique jrpgs like pokemon and twewy etc.


No, they're just becoming stale and boring following the same generic story line with very little innovation of the genre.  Mass Effect and Fall Out 3 had great graphics and both provided innovations to their chosen genre, thats from a new IP and a existing IP under control of a new dev too.  If JRPG's don't start to evolve soon then they'll die out, the problem is gamers need to get the JRPG developers to understand this and they seemingly aren't listening.

Yer a funny fella. Tell me what`s so special with the story in me and fallout.

Does it compare to Xenosaga`s mix of:


Robots, Science Fiction, 12-year old girls in swimsuits, Drama, action, comedy, sex, philosophy, love, hate, friendship and intertekstual references to Friedrich Nietzsche`s subjects, Carl Gustav Jung`s Analytical psychology, The Bibel, Jewish religion, German history and novels, Anime.

 

I think not, so before you judge Jrpg`s, read a book and check if there are any intertekstual references in your favourite wrpg`s. A good story is not easy to make. You have to be well read.

 



Before you lecture somebody regarding their literacy it is common practive to not to include spelling mistakes in your retort, also your use of capital letters is also terrible.  I always laugh when a fanboys only retort to a criticism is to attack a individual rather than try to understand their viewpoint at all.  Perhaps you should both play and finish Mass Effect and Fallout 3 then you would know why both stories were so good.  Also I'm very well read thank you and know a good story when I see it.

Wow, you did actually avoid my point. And you start attacking me for my language even though I`m not fully lectured in english.

Just answer me this:

Do the story in me compare to the story in Xenosaga?????

It`s all I want to know from a "well read" man. I won`t attack you even though I can`t see I`ve attacked you as an individual.



Citan said:

Story:

Jrpg`s are more storydriven, have deeper meanings and character-development.

If by "storydriven", you mean "linear" then this is true.

Art and graphics:

Jrpg`s have multiple genres. (Just like WRPGs) They are not afraid to combine humour with violence and sex and adult subjects

making the game more complex. (Just like WRPGs)

(Takashi Murakami`s concept of "Superflat") http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superflat

Watching a CVG scene from i.e Final Fantasy compared to wow is huge difference.(Because the men look more like men than women) Characters looks more alive and have personality. (Someone has never seen WoW cinematics)

Gameplay:

This is a matter of taste in my opinion. No winner here. (Considering the bias of this post, you've essentially handed this, the most important category, over to WRPGs)

Music:

If it weren`t for the Final Fantasy series and Xenosaga it might be a

draw here, but Nobuo Uematsu changed the way we listen to music in video-games.

Online:

WoW, need I say more. A game that takes the prize for wrpg`s because it

capture so many players to play a game that isn`t a very good game. (Wow, a back-handed compliment to WoW, how surprising)

It`s all about the community. (And the gameplay, maybe? The vast content? The impressive soundtrack? The Epic world-changing storyline?)

Lasting appeal:

For how long would you actually spend time on a game? It depends on how much you like it

of course. But do you want to be addicted to games which seems to have no ending?(I like how the category is lasting appeal, but your question attempts to put a vastly superior amount of content/flexibility/replayability in a bad light. How about we flip the question? Do you want to play a game that becomes obsolete the moment you've finished it the first time?)

Or do you want a final goal which you can reach within 50-70 hours?

My favourite Jrpg`s:

Final Fantasy VI, Xenosaga, Xenogears, Suikoden 2, Chrono Trigger.

My favourite wrpg`s:

Oblivion IV. (You've apparently never played Mass Effect. This entire post is basically cancelled by it, single-handedly.)

 

Ps:

Why do people get offended in a odd sort of way when I state that Jrpg`s have more soul and is more artistic than wrpg`s?. (I have no idea why people would get offended by your preference for retarded JRPGs with their severely outdated gameplay. Oh, I hope that didn't offend.)

 



Riachu said:
silicon said:

JRPGs are soaps


WRPGs are hit tv shows and movies

Stop comparing JRPGs to those god awful soap operas.  They are more like anime to me than soap operas.


They kinda do remind me of soap operas, actually. It's funny you guys are arguing about that.



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S.T.A.G.E. said:
pearljammer said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
mai said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
pearljammer said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

JRPG's arent typically RPG's. Take away the battle system from JRPG's and they are as typical as a simple action-adventure game. 'Nough said.

And if you take away jumping from a platformer, they would no longer be platformers.

You cannot just simply “take away” one of the most, if not the most, important elements of a game.

My point is that most JRPG's do not exemplify what an RPG is. The only thing they have going for them is the battle system which isn't enough to save it's credibility.


Blame Ultima and Wizardry, games that served as first inspiration for early jRPG creators. BTW for p'n'p RPG purists CRPGs aren't exactly RPGs as well. Those are very different experiences.


Ever played Dungeons and Dragons? Pencil and Paper RPG's where you created characters, controlled their strengths, affected the storyline by making certain choices, leveled them up and put them into battle with the characters a DM sets before you? Yeah...that is the concept of what real RPG's are.

I do not understand why we are focusing on whether or not JRPGs are 'real' RPGs. They simply were a brach off the typical RPG. That does not necessarily make them any better or any worse. Just different.

There are plenty of great hybrid games that borrow from several genres... it doesnèt take away from their so called 'credibility'. JRPG is simply a title... nothing to get hung up about.

 

WRPG's might be the rule, but they allow for more creativity and various styles of RPG's. Look at MMO's, first and third Person RPG's, FPS RPG's and TPS RPG's, team battle WRPG's (Marvel Ultimate Alliance, Champions of Norrath). That staple concept of RPG's started a wildfire of creativity. JRPG's have not been able to touch this truth.

I agree with you here. WRPGs have branched off in many directions, and that is fantastic! For example, I detest games like Oblivion but loved M:UA and Champions of Norrath.

Marvel: Ultimate Alliance, doesn't its aspects better reflect a JRPG rather than a WRPG? The story was linear and you didn't create your own character, you simply got to choose a pre-existing superhero.

But having that diversity does not take anything away from JRPGs. A JRPGs strength is in its linear scope. But they, too, have branched off quite a bit since they had started. MMOs, turned based, action based (some of it with options for multiplayer - Tales, Secret of Mana, etc), SRPGs, platforming-RPG.

There are quite a few different styles within JRPGs. Some of them may not seem as appealing to you nor are they as successful as many WRPGs, but they exist nonetheless.



S.T.A.G.E. said:
Citan said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Citan said:
slowmo said:
xcot said:
slowmo said:
JRPG's are standing still with no innovation and the storylines are the same rehashed crap we've seen for the last 15 years recycled, it is no conincidence we have not had a AAA JRPG yet this generation. WRPG's for me show variety and they're all a bit different, look at the choices you're given in games like Fallout 3, Mass Effect, Fable 2, etc.

Apologies for slating your favourite genre to the JRPG fans, surely you guys must see that something needs to change in the genre if it is to survive in the long term?


Correction, we haven't had an AAA jrpg on consoles because the japanese like many western developers are caught up with graphics.

Where the DS s really innovating in RPGs.

Its has great S-jrpgs, normal jrpgs, unique jrpgs like pokemon and twewy etc.


No, they're just becoming stale and boring following the same generic story line with very little innovation of the genre.  Mass Effect and Fall Out 3 had great graphics and both provided innovations to their chosen genre, thats from a new IP and a existing IP under control of a new dev too.  If JRPG's don't start to evolve soon then they'll die out, the problem is gamers need to get the JRPG developers to understand this and they seemingly aren't listening.

Yer a funny fella. Tell me what`s so special with the story in me and fallout.

Does it compare to Xenosaga`s mix of:


Robots, Science Fiction, 12-year old girls in swimsuits, Drama, action, comedy, sex, philosophy, love, hate, friendship and intertekstual references to Friedrich Nietzsche`s subjects, Carl Gustav Jung`s Analytical psychology, The Bibel, Jewish religion, German history and novels, Anime.

 

I think not, so before you judge Jrpg`s, read a book and check if there are any intertekstual references in your favourite wrpg`s. A good story is not easy to make. You have to be well read.

 



If you want to figure out why Mass Effects story is worlds beyond Final Fantasy, go buy the novels.

And Xenosaga?

I've heard very good things about Xenosaga and that it was like Chrono Trigger..which itself isn't the typical JRPG...based off of Western Sci-Fi ideas and have choice like a WRPG.

Xenosaga is a huge story driven game and is nothing like Chrono Trigger, but I`m saying no story is more complex than Xenosaga`s.



xcot said:
ME is EXTREMELY BORING BEYOND COMPREHENSION imo. Gameplay was slow, talking was slow.


Whoa...slow gameplay is the staple of JRPG's. It's called a turn-based system. Jesus Christ some people have things ass backwards! LOL!



Citan said:
silicon said:

JRPGs are soaps


WRPGs are hit tv shows and movies



Robots, Science Fiction, 12-year old girls in swimsuits, Drama, action, comedy, sex, philosophy, love, hate, friendship and intertekstual references to Friedrich Nietzsche`s subjects, Carl Gustav Jung`s Analytical psychology, The Bibel, Jewish religion, German history and novels, Anime.

 

Is that what you call soap?

And I thought wrpg`s had freedom. When you watch a movie, you don`t have much freedom. Instead while you watch soaps you have the freedom to skip 10-15 episodes and still be able to catch up to the story.

So your statement fails in  my eyes.

 

Yeah, JRPGs are like soaps...

And WRPGs are like hit tv shows and movies.

 

Even without freedom WRPGs are still better then JRPGs... so I dunno what your point is...



slowmo said:
xcot said:
ME is EXTREMELY BORING BEYOND COMPREHENSION imo. Gameplay was slow, talking was slow.


AND YOUR USE OF CAPITAL LETTERS means I have no interest in your viewpoint at all.  Also the gameplay wasn't particularly slow so perhaps you should have tried playing it faster instead of one button at a time.


Isn't it ironic that your last post was about people not being a grammar nazi, and now you're saying because i used capitals my post is irrelevant?

 

Nice touch ;D

 

@stage: ye, but theres slow real time battles then theres turn based. I like turn based because its tactical use of time, on the other hand giving someone the freedom and then limiting the speed is boring; Hence my hate for gears of war as well.



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