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Forums - Gaming - Team Ico series has overtaken Zelda as greatest adventure series!! By MM.2.

Torillian on 10 June 2009
Avinash_Tyagi said:

Sorry werekitten, but dates and amount sold are not at all comparable, see your logic is horribly flawed, while 1 million units sold is more than 1 hundred thousand, we don't know if today is any greater than yesterday, in fact we don't know if time is linear or whether it flows like a river, or is time circular, or whether it is merely a series of moments that our mind processes in some order to keep us sane.  This is why your argument falls apart I can easily show that 1 million is better than 1 hunderd thousand, no one can show whether today is better than yesterday, or even if yesterday existed for that matter.

 

Preference was proven by sales, The orignaly Zelda sold 6.51 million units. Ico sold only around 700 thousand, both games and franchises were unknown when they were released, yet the market bought Zelda, and kept on buying Zelda, on the other hand, the team Ico games have been very much niche.

You are only proving consumer preference, not quality.  Just use metacritic or something, but just going by sales is silly.  Consumers make all kinds of nonsensical (from a quality standpoint) choices due to situation when the product is introduced, popularity, and marketting. 



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Shanobi on 10 June 2009

I love SotC, and Ico, but you can't be serious about them having "overtaken" anything on Zelda. Great games, but no.



 

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Avinash_Tyagi on 10 June 2009
Torillian said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:

Sorry werekitten, but dates and amount sold are not at all comparable, see your logic is horribly flawed, while 1 million units sold is more than 1 hundred thousand, we don't know if today is any greater than yesterday, in fact we don't know if time is linear or whether it flows like a river, or is time circular, or whether it is merely a series of moments that our mind processes in some order to keep us sane.  This is why your argument falls apart I can easily show that 1 million is better than 1 hunderd thousand, no one can show whether today is better than yesterday, or even if yesterday existed for that matter.

 

Preference was proven by sales, The orignaly Zelda sold 6.51 million units. Ico sold only around 700 thousand, both games and franchises were unknown when they were released, yet the market bought Zelda, and kept on buying Zelda, on the other hand, the team Ico games have been very much niche.

You are only proving consumer preference, not quality.  Just use metacritic or something, but just going by sales is silly.  Consumers make all kinds of nonsensical (from a quality standpoint) choices due to situation when the product is introduced, popularity, and marketting.

Metacritic can't prove quality, because metacrtitic just takes people's opinions and aggregates them why is a reviewers opinion more imporant than the averae consumers?  Consumers prove their reviews in sales, sales are how the market reviews a product.



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

WereKitten on 10 June 2009
Avinash_Tyagi said:

Sorry werekitten, but dates and amount sold are not at all comparable, see your logic is horribly flawed, while 1 million units sold is more than 1 hundred thousand, we don't know if today is any greater than yesterday, in fact we don't know if time is linear or whether it flows like a river, or is time circular, or whether it is merely a series of moments that our mind processes in some order to keep us sane.  This is why your argument falls apart I can easily show that 1 million is better than 1 hunderd thousand, no one can show whether today is better than yesterday, or even if yesterday existed for that matter.

 

Preference was proven by sales, The orignaly Zelda sold 6.51 million units. Ico sold only around 700 thousand, both games and franchises were unknown when they were released, yet the market bought Zelda, and kept on buying Zelda, on the other hand, the team Ico games have been very much niche.

The philosophical nature of time is hardly relevant when we have ordered dates (i.e. we can tell which day came first).

I can't express myself much better than how I already did. I invite you to re-read what I wrote in my previous post about measures and correlations. And Stephen King.



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Torillian on 10 June 2009

Because a reviewer has probably played both, Zelda selling more than Ico could be for all kinds of reason. People never heard of Ico but Zelda got advertising, perhaps Ico was released in a more crowded genre at the time than Zelda was. If a review scores one better than the other they are thinking about how the game compares to all others, your random consumer doesn't think that way, they just want to get what they saw on TV or heard about from a friend.

There are far too many things that affect sales for it to be a reasonable measure of quality.



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Avinash_Tyagi on 10 June 2009
WereKitten said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:

Sorry werekitten, but dates and amount sold are not at all comparable, see your logic is horribly flawed, while 1 million units sold is more than 1 hundred thousand, we don't know if today is any greater than yesterday, in fact we don't know if time is linear or whether it flows like a river, or is time circular, or whether it is merely a series of moments that our mind processes in some order to keep us sane.  This is why your argument falls apart I can easily show that 1 million is better than 1 hunderd thousand, no one can show whether today is better than yesterday, or even if yesterday existed for that matter.

 

Preference was proven by sales, The orignaly Zelda sold 6.51 million units. Ico sold only around 700 thousand, both games and franchises were unknown when they were released, yet the market bought Zelda, and kept on buying Zelda, on the other hand, the team Ico games have been very much niche.

The philosophical nature of time is hardly relevant when we have ordered dates (i.e. we can tell which day came first).

I can't express myself much better than how I already did. I invite you to re-read what I wrote in my previous post about measures and correlations. And Stephen King.

Not really since the order of the dates is arbitrary, can you prove that yesterday occured before today, can you even prove that there was a yesterday?

But your point is flawed, I can show that 1 million is more than 1 hndred thousand, right here right now, bring me 1 million dollars and 1 hundred thosand dollars, and I will show you which pile is bigger (and then i'll keep the piles, for recored purposes, of course)



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

megaman.2. on 10 June 2009
Torillian said:
Because a reviewer has probably played both, Zelda selling more than Ico could be for all kinds of reason. People never heard of Ico but Zelda got advertising, perhaps Ico was released in a more crowded genre at the time than Zelda was. If a review scores one better than the other they are thinking about how the game compares to all others, your random consumer doesn't think that way, they just want to get what they saw on TV or heard about from a friend.

There are far too many things that affect sales for it to be a reasonable measure of quality.

I agree, wii sports is not the greatest game of all time! That title goes to Mgs4



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Avinash_Tyagi on 10 June 2009
Torillian said:
Because a reviewer has probably played both, Zelda selling more than Ico could be for all kinds of reason. People never heard of Ico but Zelda got advertising, perhaps Ico was released in a more crowded genre at the time than Zelda was. If a review scores one better than the other they are thinking about how the game compares to all others, your random consumer doesn't think that way, they just want to get what they saw on TV or heard about from a friend.

There are far too many things that affect sales for it to be a reasonable measure of quality.


But that is still opinion, if I played both and I found one to be better, that would be opinion, not fact, again a reviewer gives their opinion on a game, if I get shown a game by a friend, that is an opinion I am recieving, but when I buy one game and not the other, that is showing that I prefer one game over another and when a game sells more than another, that shows that the market preferred the game that sold more.



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

BengaBenga on 10 June 2009

lol. I always have to laugh about your threads. Your humour is amazing. Maybe you have to be Dutch to understand...

Anyway: Zelda is simply much better gameplay wise. But the Zelda series is probably the best game series there is. But the two "Ico" games really touch on an emotional level, which is a major accomplishment and I can't wait to play Last Guardian.



Torillian on 10 June 2009
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Torillian said:
Because a reviewer has probably played both, Zelda selling more than Ico could be for all kinds of reason. People never heard of Ico but Zelda got advertising, perhaps Ico was released in a more crowded genre at the time than Zelda was. If a review scores one better than the other they are thinking about how the game compares to all others, your random consumer doesn't think that way, they just want to get what they saw on TV or heard about from a friend.

There are far too many things that affect sales for it to be a reasonable measure of quality.


But that is still opinion, if I played both and I found one to be better, that would be opinion, not fact, again a reviewer gives their opinion on a game, if I get shown a game by a friend, that is an opinion I am recieving, but when I buy one game and not the other, that is showing that I prefer one game over another and when a game sells more than another, that shows that the market preferred the game that sold more.

How can you liken comparing the sales of Zelda and ICo to you buying one game and not the other after being shown both.  First of all these games weren't even made at the same time period, how exactly did people buying Zelda make a choice between Ico and Zelda when Ico didn't exist yet?  Second, all the other things I said are wrong with your comparison.



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