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Forums - Gaming - Team Ico series has overtaken Zelda as greatest adventure series!! By MM.2.

Avinash_Tyagi said:

Sorry, but saying a game is better is purely subjective, one person may love Ico and another may hate it, so yes I am implying that sales and profits are the only important measures of a game, because it is objective, a game either sells a certain amount or it doesn't, it either makes a profit or it doesn't

So now objective measures of complex works are necessarily the only important ones because they are objective? That's interesting.

You know what else is objective? The release date. Since newer products are better than older products, and the date of release is not subjective, then it must mean that Ico is better than most Zelda games *eyeroll*



"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain

"..." - Gordon Freeman

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KingEidilleg said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Both Team Ico games have sold poorly compared to the games in the Zelda series, proof that the Ico games are nowhere near the level of the Zelda games

I sure hope you're not implying that stuff that sells well equals great quality. Because I'd hate to think Nintendogs is a better game than say Super Mario World, Halo, Gran Turismo or most games. If I'd think about music than Mariah Carey's The Emancipation of Mimi and Milli Vanilli are better than most albums by U2, Prince etc. Or Titanic is a much better movie than Spirited Away, Wall-e, Gladiator, Star Wars and close to every other movie ever made. I really don't think so !

When you say it that way it makes sense.  But think of it this way:  If people thought Halo or Gran Turismo was better than Nintendogs, then they would have bought that instead of Nintendogs.  I, personally, think that Nintendogs is a great game though and deserves the sales that it gets.



One date is not intrinsically better than another, more sales are intrinsically better.

 

Objective sales are more important, if I were to say that Ico was boring and I hated it, that would be my opinion, and whether it was better than another game, would be merely opinion, but when I say that consumers preferred Zelda, that Zelda sold far more than Ico, that is irrefutable, the market spoke and Ico was shown to be less demanded than Zelda



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

Avinash_Tyagi said:

One date is not intrinsically better than another, more sales are intrinsically better.

 

Objective sales are more important, if I were to say that Ico was boring and I hated it, that would be my opinion, and whether it was better than another game, would be merely opinion, but when I say that consumers preferred Zelda, that Zelda sold far more than Ico, that is irrefutable, the market spoke and Ico was shown to be less demanded than Zelda

Your first sentence has nothing to do with your logic, nor with my rebuttal. We're not comparing dates in quality or sales in quality. We're comparing dates chronologically and sales in quantity to determine quality of games.

As for the rest:

"Zelda sold more than ICO" is a hard fact.

"Consumers preferred Zelda" is a non sequitur. Do you have statistics about the preferences of all the people that bought and played both? Because that's the only way that would make that a fact. People who only played one can't logically give us any informed opinion regarding how the quality of the games compare.

Please see the fallacy of your method. There is a correlation between quality and sales (yes, statistically good games will tend to sell more than bad games). And there is a correlation between game release date and quality (yes, statistically games are getting better with time). But just because dates and sales are hard factual number doesn't mean those correlations are complete. The amount of correlation can be minimal.

There are other factors that correlate to quality besides date, and there are other factors that correlate to sales besides quality.

Unless you think that Stephen King is a better writer than, say, Tolstoj. I'm pretty sure King sold more books last year.



"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain

"..." - Gordon Freeman

Heyyy, you called people Nintendians :D Where's my credit for that? :(

Also, no, Shadow of the Colossus is a great experience and really fun, but it's nowhere near as fun as Twilight Princess. Sorry.



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I don't get how you guys are having
a conversation in here

I guess the thread isn't screwed
for everyone.



...

Well I personally I don't even think Zelda is that great, no one I know does. I've tried quite a few times to get into OoT, but it just can't hold my attention. The only one I've enjoyed was TP, even if I still thought the controlls were pretty bad. However, ICO and SotC I instantly loved. So I'll have to be the odd one and say ICO > Zelda.

Also, what's with all the flaming in this thread? =\



According to your opinion but critics and sales say otherwise.



nope Zelda wins

Ocarina Of Time
A Link To The Past
Link's Awakening
Majora's Mask
The Wind Waker
Twilight Princess

enough said



Sorry werekitten, but dates and amount sold are not at all comparable, the two concepts are totally different, see your logic is horribly flawed, while 1 million units sold is more than 1 hundred thousand, we don't know if today is any greater than yesterday, in fact we don't know if time is linear or whether it flows like a river, or is time circular, or whether it is merely a series of moments that our mind processes in some order to keep us sane.  This is why your argument falls apart I can easily show that 1 million is better than 1 hunderd thousand, no one can show whether today is better than yesterday, or even if yesterday existed for that matter.

 

Preference was proven by sales, The orignaly Zelda sold 6.51 million units. Ico sold only around 700 thousand, both games and franchises were unknown when they were released, yet the market bought Zelda, and kept on buying Zelda, on the other hand, the team Ico games have been very much niche.



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)