@theRepublic

True, but I'm an optimist...I hope things work out with Natal as they are promissed.

I assume a game is going to be good rather than game is crap until proven good.

Look at my previous posts on Alone in the dark for example :)

I agree with you that the shipping version of Natal will include a wand or some other peripheral.  I don't think MS will be able to accomplish the level of accuracy needed along the z axis without it.  But it would directly contradict their "You are the Controller" presentation.  Comparing MS and Sony's presentation, Microsoft clearly won on the marketing front, but the level of accuracy that Sony displayed in the handwriting, and sword demonstration was far better than anything MS showed with Natal.

But people criticized the Sixaxis for gimmicky applications like that... shaking your controller for reload anyone? As a hardcore gamer, I'm assuming that also makes you a competitive player, am I right (in Multiplayer)? Will you really let go of one of your hands (which either controls your motion or perception) and do that motion with the hand? What about aiming the grenade? Would you have to aim with the analog sticks, and then wind up for the grenade motion?

I say that Sixaxis and NATAL will fail for Hardcore gaming if all they do is gimmicky and unnecessary things. Using the Sixaxis for things such as controlling the wind in Flower and (from what I heard) the plane in Warhawk seem legitimate. I hope that NATAL will find legitimate use, however I do not dig the ideas about steering without a wheel (and even more is pushing the pedal) and other applications. The most viable one I could see is RTS games, but after seeing the PSmote presentation, I feel that the Wiimote/PSmote is more suited (although I just wish one of the HD consoles will just allow Mouse and Keyboard integration... if they do that, they can get a large number of PC exclusives)

Wasn't Sony criticized for putting in non-gaming application in the PS3? Isn't that a double standard?

I think that Milo, assuming that it works just as the tech demo during the E3 presentation suggested, is a tad bit creepy... and I can only see very old people with no family to go for that. I don't see Moms going for it.

I do feel sorry for Nintendo. So many Sony and Xbox fanboys derided motion controls as gimmicky, and railed against casual gamers, and now they're just jizzing in their pants with the thought of their console selling more. I say, as a "hardcore" gamer, motion control doesn't reallly interest me. I am interested in the 1:1 thing, but I don't really see it working that well still. I'll wait for Red Steal 2 to see how it goes... I would love it, if it works, for an Elder Scroll game with Wii/PSmote. However, the combat in that game is very controlled, and slow so that's all I can really see that working.

I think Sony was right in that some things really do need physical controllers, but I still don't agree that their PSmote is the answer. I think that I'll stick with controllers until we have Matrix styled virtual reality, lol.

I completely agree with your statemnt that MS won the press war with motion controls.

Like, by watching Sonys e3, I know sony is introducing motion controls. But I have no idea what its called, what it is...none of the demos stood out.

With MS you know terms like "Natal", "Milo"...these are things average consumer can remember and press will repeat until the product is a success. After all press needs buzz words like that to create interest and sell ads and make money.

Its all up to MS now to make the damn thing work as they said it will.

Microsoft completely missed what Nintendo was doing, just as much as Sony did.

While Nintendo created controls that meld core and casual together, and unify gamers of all kinds, Microsoft created a system with no human interface, destroying any core game useage, and Sony created a system with no joystick, doing the same. Both are doing nothing but creating even more walls, and their controls will be massive flops because of it. Add to this the fact that Microsoft showed off incomplete controls with major issues for something that's not going to be released until 2011, and you have the ADD mainstream media forgetting they even existed long before they are a factor in the industry.

Microsoft has spent its entire existence as a company trying to copy and improve on its competitors, and they never get it right. This will not be changing anytime soon.

While I agree that the ubber-hardcore gamers may have a problem with Natal and it may fail when it comes to them accepting it, those people are becoming much thinner in numbers as the time goes by.

I for example have been gaming for almost 20 years now and I can't do UFC 2009 very well. Its a great game...but controls are too much for me.

I have not been a supporter of the Wii mote not because its not a good idea...but because the damn thing doesnt work properly. Its still a controller and people still find ways to use it better than the other person. Like in boom blox, my gf can easily beat me cause she flips the controller and snaps her wrist faster than I can wind up and throw the ball.

Like I said, if MS can make this thing work as they are sayign it will, I see great things for the hardcore and casual alike. They are certanly betting it all on this Natal thing (buying the company that made the tech, using it at E3 as the "wow" announcement...etc) so I don't think we need to doubt that they will atleast try to make it all it could be.

Sony on the other hand has a bit tougher time convincing me that the Wand is the future for the PS3...it seems more like a diversion from Killzone 2.

But what will be different between you holding nothing in your hand vs a Wiimote? Nothing. Your girlfriend can still flick her wrist the same exact way, and faster than you. Now you're just complaining about people being better than you at a game, and it won't change with NATAL (Same motion, same skills, just without a physical thing in the hand.)

I disagree, I don't think it helps the hardcore. I don't really see many applications with motion control, and the ones that exist, I usually prefer the controller alternative for being more precise and quicker (instead of Wii, PS3, 360 scanning your hands, fingers, etc to calculate if you just wanted to throw a grenade, or press R2)

What do you mean diversion from Killzone 2? If you will argue that then NATAL too is diverging from Halo... unless I misunderstood you?

I'm not disregarding the sales potentials at all. However I do think that the applications don't really benefit us "hardcore" gamers, and as a customer I only want companies to appeal to me, that's what make me buy one product from another.

That bolded statement is wrong in my opinion. Nintendo succeded in breaking away form the controller but the line between core and casual is quite clear. Playing a "core" game like punch out with motion controls is as fun as getting nails stuck to your eyelids. When it comes to the wii mote I would preffer to use a standard controller for anything that has "core" competitive play and isn't a point and shoot game, or a shake/throw controller game...

Racing games kinda work if you flip the wii mote but try doing a non arcade racing simulation with it.

What I'm saying is that you're still tied to the controller that nitnendo has given you.

Also, completely off topic...after seeing all these paint demos from Sony and MS...why hasn't nintendo made Mario Paint fo the Wii?

You know, theres a pen name called Sean Malstrom that this quote really reminds me of. Do you see the connection or am I just being a bit slow?

Milo is not even going to be released, it was just shown to show people the power of Natal, much like the Final Fantasy VII Tech Demo