By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming - Are you a graphical enthusiast? Come have a listen......

Squilliam said:
CGI-Quality said:

Since you USUALLY have something invalid to say about me, where do I post negative about the 360? Please show me.......

And if you actually READ the article, he isn't talking bad about the 360 itself, but the decisions of the higher ups involved with developing on the 360. If you weren't so concerned with who's a "fanboy", you may have learned something from this OTHER than the author just wants to "hate" the 360.

How much do you agree with that article? I hope not much.

Fighting the machine to achieve your vision just takes energy and time away from the parts of the game which really matter. The game itself. If the average standard is higher then developers will still have to work harder to distinguish their game from the rest. It doesn't create lazyness, it creates an art race (arms race).

 

I too am interested in how much of the article CGI agree's with



 



Around the Network

I just know I didn't take it seriously after reading graphical enthusiast in the title then reading the start where it said not counting computers, that's just assinite(not a word.)



CGI-Quality said:
Squilliam said:
CGI-Quality said:

Since you USUALLY have something invalid to say about me, where do I post negative about the 360? Please show me.......

And if you actually READ the article, he isn't talking bad about the 360 itself, but the decisions of the higher ups involved with developing on the 360. If you weren't so concerned with who's a "fanboy", you may have learned something from this OTHER than the author just wants to "hate" the 360.

How much do you agree with that article? I hope not much.

Fighting the machine to achieve your vision just takes energy and time away from the parts of the game which really matter. The game itself. If the average standard is higher then developers will still have to work harder to distinguish their game from the rest. It doesn't create lazyness, it creates an art race (arms race).

 

The last sentence I MAINLY agree with. People are learning the PS3 and are therefore finally taking advantage of it. The 360's TRUE potential hasn't been exploited yet, and that part of the article I agree with. As for Microsoft being at fault for shotty ports, I HIGHLY disagree wtih that.

The PS3 is relatively easier to program for than the PS2. However the Xbox 360 is so much easier to attain a good basic level of performance that it makes the PS3 look extremely difficult. Beyond the basic level of performance they are both equally hard/easy to program as far as I know. Not many people know that the Xbox 360 can feed data into the GPU and use the shaders for program code, its not easy to manage two seperate threads per core to attain maximal performance etc.



Tease.

I'll be honest. I just looked at the pictures in the article.



It makes some sense overall. But I don't think it's fair to put all the blame on microsoft.



Around the Network

this article blaming m$ for causing problems in the industry,bad ports on the ps3 and bad graphics on the wii, is without question a complete "bs" statement. unreal engine is a epic property, so how is it m$'s fault then? this person is a moron, plain and simple. granted he is right about certain things, like dev's putting a good effort into all their stuff to get good to great graphics is true, but its not m$'s fault if the dev's not put that effort into their games. i know i am in the miniority on this site that i still havent found a single game on the ps3 that looks better than gears of war 1 or 2, its how i feel. granted uncharted,mgs4,killzone 2,infamous,lbp all look great but to my eyes not better than epic's 2 great games. in any case both systems (360/ps3), can produce truly eye candy games.



GAMERTAG IS ANIMEHEAVEN X23

PSN ID IS : ANIMEREALM 

PROUD MEMBER OF THE RPG FAN CLUB THREAD

ALL-TIME FAVORITE JRPG IS : LOST ODYSSEY

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=52882&page=1

CGI-Quality said:
Squilliam said:
CGI-Quality said:
Squilliam said:
CGI-Quality said:

Since you USUALLY have something invalid to say about me, where do I post negative about the 360? Please show me.......

And if you actually READ the article, he isn't talking bad about the 360 itself, but the decisions of the higher ups involved with developing on the 360. If you weren't so concerned with who's a "fanboy", you may have learned something from this OTHER than the author just wants to "hate" the 360.

How much do you agree with that article? I hope not much.

Fighting the machine to achieve your vision just takes energy and time away from the parts of the game which really matter. The game itself. If the average standard is higher then developers will still have to work harder to distinguish their game from the rest. It doesn't create lazyness, it creates an art race (arms race).

 

The last sentence I MAINLY agree with. People are learning the PS3 and are therefore finally taking advantage of it. The 360's TRUE potential hasn't been exploited yet, and that part of the article I agree with. As for Microsoft being at fault for shotty ports, I HIGHLY disagree wtih that.

The PS3 is relatively easier to program for than the PS2. However the Xbox 360 is so much easier to attain a good basic level of performance that it makes the PS3 look extremely difficult. Beyond the basic level of performance they are both equally hard/easy to program as far as I know. Not many people know that the Xbox 360 can feed data into the GPU and use the shaders for program code, its not easy to manage two seperate threads per core to attain maximal performance etc.

I here you my friend, which is why I don't fully agree with the author. I posted, actually, to see what the VG Community thought, not to bash the 360 in anyway. If you look at my threads, I WON'T post a negative console thread, no matter what.

As a game developer I want a platform that is easy to program for. Multithreading, full network supprt (coop and versus) and a fully programable graphichs pipeline are already complex enough without added artifical barriers to create a progression in game quality throughout a consoles lifespan. I want to spend my time and energy creating cool new features, not wrestling with the hardware.

As a game player I also don't like it, as if deprecates the consoles current library as launch games will look worse and worse conparitvly each year. Throw in the fact that gameplay innovation is becomming more important and you have no real win for difficult hardware.

I can understand that the cutting edge enthusiast will be dissapointed in that there is no yearly progression. These are the PC gamers who by a new graphics card every year. With the cost of devolopment already exceding revenue made from games this is and increasingly unttenable position.

The core point of the article seems to be that easy to program for hardware has made developers lazy and stiffles innovation. This I oviously dissagree with and find very arrogant and condescending.



aderoche said:

As a game developer I want a platform that is easy to program for. Multithreading, full network supprt (coop and versus) and a fully programable graphichs pipeline are already complex enough without added artifical barriers to create a progression in game quality throughout a consoles lifespan. I want to spend my time and energy creating cool new features, not wrestling with the hardware.

As a game player I also don't like it, as if deprecates the consoles current library as launch games will look worse and worse conparitvly each year. Throw in the fact that gameplay innovation is becomming more important and you have no real win for difficult hardware.

I can understand that the cutting edge enthusiast will be dissapointed in that there is no yearly progression. These are the PC gamers who by a new graphics card every year. With the cost of devolopment already exceding revenue made from games this is and increasingly unttenable position.

The core point of the article seems to be that easy to program for hardware has made developers lazy and stiffles innovation. This I oviously dissagree with and find very arrogant and condescending.

As a dev too I have been wondering why they say that if you can't program blindfold, both of your legs behind your head, upsidedown and only using only your secondary hand you are lazy and you are good for nothing but selling sausages(Yes thats what they said about Gabe Newell.). I guess that makes me lazy too. I would like to however play around with PS3, but I wouldn't want to make anything bigger for it.

As a player I would say that games are currently only about hype and graphics with very linear and simple content. Pretty much opposite to golden era of PC gaming when content in games did evolve too not devolve like its doing right now.

Cost of development is even lower on PC than its on X360. You really don't have to optimize everything and you have much more space to work with. The myth about PC developing being hard because of variety of different hardware is just plain wrong. Today you really have to care just about how powerful those machines are you are developing game for. Anything else is handled by libraries that are defined by APIs.

I would rather have even more easier development than they have on X360. That could be achieved by using PC hardware on consoles. I predict that Sony would be in deep trouble with PS4, if they would use somehow tweaked CELL on it. In next gen cost of development would be higher and hardware with CELL in it would make even higher. Well, there has been speculations about CELL + Larrabee in next PS4, but I would see that as a suicide. Ditching graphical APIs would be way too much for some 'lazy' developers.



Deneidez said:
aderoche said:

As a game developer I want a platform that is easy to program for. Multithreading, full network supprt (coop and versus) and a fully programable graphichs pipeline are already complex enough without added artifical barriers to create a progression in game quality throughout a consoles lifespan. I want to spend my time and energy creating cool new features, not wrestling with the hardware.

As a game player I also don't like it, as if deprecates the consoles current library as launch games will look worse and worse conparitvly each year. Throw in the fact that gameplay innovation is becomming more important and you have no real win for difficult hardware.

I can understand that the cutting edge enthusiast will be dissapointed in that there is no yearly progression. These are the PC gamers who by a new graphics card every year. With the cost of devolopment already exceding revenue made from games this is and increasingly unttenable position.

The core point of the article seems to be that easy to program for hardware has made developers lazy and stiffles innovation. This I oviously dissagree with and find very arrogant and condescending.

As a dev too I have been wondering why they say that if you can't program blindfold, both of your legs behind your head, upsidedown and only using only your secondary hand you are lazy and you are good for nothing but selling sausages(Yes thats what they said about Gabe Newell.). I guess that makes me lazy too. I would like to however play around with PS3, but I wouldn't want to make anything bigger for it.

As a player I would say that games are currently only about hype and graphics with very linear and simple content. Pretty much opposite to golden era of PC gaming when content in games did evolve too not devolve like its doing right now.

Cost of development is even lower on PC than its on X360. You really don't have to optimize everything and you have much more space to work with. The myth about PC developing being hard because of variety of different hardware is just plain wrong. Today you really have to care just about how powerful those machines are you are developing game for. Anything else is handled by libraries that are defined by APIs.

I would rather have even more easier development than they have on X360. That could be achieved by using PC hardware on consoles. I predict that Sony would be in deep trouble with PS4, if they would use somehow tweaked CELL on it. In next gen cost of development would be higher and hardware with CELL in it would make even higher. Well, there has been speculations about CELL + Larrabee in next PS4, but I would see that as a suicide. Ditching graphical APIs would be way too much for some 'lazy' developers.

and it'd make dev cost go even higher too lol, what real lazy is=early Wii days, doesn't apply much to HD console devs for the most part.



Not really, but I like pretty things :D



4 ≈ One