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Forums - Gaming - RPGFan May Editorial - Where did the RPG villains go?

outlawauron on 28 May 2009
zexen_lowe said:
griffinA said:
This is a popular argument in all forms of entertainment. Whether the villians should be realistic (a la Macbeth) or clear cut and clearly evil (a la the emperor in Star Wars). On the one hand, we have Realism in it's effort to make a realisitic story that is believable to the participants. On the other, we have Romanticism which strives to represent a primal aspect of life in it's fairy-tale like stories.

I personally perfer the Romantic side. As games are similar to fairy-tales, I don't want to hear if the villian is somewhat justified or there is moral ambiguity around the whole situation. Fighting against a "bad person" is something that is immortal and should always be told. They even transcend specific time periods or cultural differences.

While I get what you say, no one is evil just for the sake of being evil. Having a very evil villain without any past or motivations whatsoever is a bad storytelling device, and one that for me makes no sense. Of course, you can have very evil villains that are really well developed, they lack any moral ambiguity but you don't feel like they're just "for the sake of being the evil villain". Case in point, Luca Blight had nary a redeeming feature, but it's not like he didn't have a reason, seeing his mother being raped in front of him as a powerless kid made him realize that only powerful men have success, thus he seeked power for that reason, because he understood that any powerful man has the right to crush any powerless one. That's a good reason  (in a nutshell, of course), and it doesn't feel like the character has no background.

I don't think the two "types of villain" as you put it are that mutally exclusive. It's just that sometimes developers don't realize they can use both sides. Personally, I'll always take a good developed villain, without caring if its a "totally evil one" or a "moral ambiguous one". Yet, most of the best developed villains are the moral ambiguous ones, that's a fault of RPG storytelling that can't develop well the "totally evil ones"

Blue Dragon.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

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Xxain on 28 May 2009

^ wasnt Nene just mean or something absolutely ridiculous like that?



outlawauron on 28 May 2009
Xxain said:
^ wasnt Nene just mean or something absolutely ridiculous like that?

Yes. That was his motivation.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

Check out MyAnimeList and my Game Collection. Owner of the 5 millionth post.

zexen_lowe on 28 May 2009
outlawauron said:
Xxain said:
^ wasnt Nene just mean or something absolutely ridiculous like that?

Yes. That was his motivatio

Thanks for giving me another reason to add to my list of "Why I should never try Blue Dragon". It's a pretty long list, by the way




emilie autumn on 28 May 2009

evil for the sake of evil is not that bad, see lavos he was a horrible villian, but really fun fighting against.



 

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Khuutra on 28 May 2009
Rei said:
Neoraf said:
If you want a bad-ass with real motivations, take a look at Saren in Mass Effect.

The RPGs are evolving. It's a very good thing.
No more kiddie rpgs like in the past (Good versus bad, black and white situations). Gray zones FTW!

More mature plots and moral choices.
Bioware, the leader in next-generation RPGs.


    Ehh .. no. Saren is boring and predictable, there is nothing intriguing nor interesting behind his actions. A very straightforward type of villain, he is. 

   Bioware is capable of creating great villains, but Saren is just not the case. A good example of great villain in western-developed RPG would be Aribeth from original NWN (developed by Bioware). But overall, I really cant think of many great villains in western developed RPGs, even older ones. I guess western devs never concentrated on that.

Chris Avellone writes masterful villains. I mean, the main antagonist from Knights of the Old Republic II alone is probably the greatest villain in the history of the medium.



Words Of Wisdom on 28 May 2009
Khuutra said:

Chris Avellone writes masterful villains. I mean, the main antagonist from Knights of the Old Republic II alone is probably the greatest villain in the history of the medium.

No, just no.



griffinA on 28 May 2009

I thought Lavos was characterized very well in that he lives a parrasitic existence. His way of life in destroying planets. Therefore, his purpose in life clashes with the heroes of the story.



"Pier was a chef, a gifted and respected chef who made millions selling his dishes to the residents of New York City and Boston, he even had a famous jingle playing in those cities that everyone knew by heart. He also had a restaurant in Los Angeles, but not expecting LA to have such a massive population he only used his name on that restaurant and left it to his least capable and cheapest chefs. While his New York restaurant sold kobe beef for $100 and his Boston restaurant sold lobster for $50, his LA restaurant sold cheap hotdogs for $30. Initially these hot dogs sold fairly well because residents of los angeles were starving for good food and hoped that the famous name would denote a high quality, but most were disappointed with what they ate. Seeing the success of his cheap hot dogs in LA, Pier thought "why bother giving Los Angeles quality meats when I can oversell them on cheap hotdogs forever, and since I don't care about the product anyways, why bother advertising them? So Pier continued to only sell cheap hotdogs in LA and was surprised to see that they no longer sold. Pier's conclusion? Residents of Los Angeles don't like food."

"The so-called "hardcore" gamer is a marketing brainwashed, innovation shunting, self-righteous idiot who pays videogame makers far too much money than what is delivered."

emilie autumn on 28 May 2009
griffinA said:
I thought Lavos was characterized very well in that he lives a parrasitic existence. His way of life in destroying planets. Therefore, his purpose in life clashes with the heroes of the story.


isn't that a poor excuse for a villian, hell even magus was a better developed villian, lavos was  a parasite consuming on the planet, who created him?? what drives this parasitic desire??? as we can see lavos has some sort of an organism living inside him, does this organism have inteligence??? or it just mantains the main body functioning???



 

Khuutra on 29 May 2009
Words Of Wisdom said:
Khuutra said:

Chris Avellone writes masterful villains. I mean, the main antagonist from Knights of the Old Republic II alone is probably the greatest villain in the history of the medium.

No, just no.

WoW just because you like Fire Emblem doesn't get you a pass.

You don't have to think Kreia is tops, though. Just that she's awesome.