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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Why Nintendo’s Core games aren't hitting the mark anymore

liquidninja on 27 May 2009

Malstrom has done it again! He's talked about how Nintendo's not hitting the mark with their newer Core games. In short too much 'innovation' not enough content.

Malstrom said:

...

My view is that Nintendo keeps making sequels to N64 and Gamecube games instead of sequels to NES and SNES games. Mario Kart was in the wilderness until the director of Mario Kart DS said, “We are going to beat the SNES Mario Kart,” and the game was designed to get back to those roots. Mario Kart Wii followed in that vision (Mario Kart Wii is far more difficult to master than Double Dash [and has far more content]). Mario Sunshine and Mario Galaxy met with a collective yawn from the market. New Super Mario Brothers, a 2d Mario made, somewhat, in the fashion of NES and SNES era type gaming, ends up being one of the best selling games ever made trumping even Super Mario Brothers 3’s sales.

So why do sequels made in NES/SNES fashion work better than N64/Gamecube fashion (with the exception of Zelda)? In the past, such as the NES/SNES era, games were based on content meaning ideas and mythos. The arcade era gameplay leaking into the consoles games also didn’t hurt. The N64/Gamecube era type games seem obsessed over ‘innovation’ rather than content. Ooohhh, so Mario has a water pack now? So what? Oooohhh, Mario can float through space. And? Using Miyamoto’s own words from that Nintendo Power interview of when he was developing Super Mario Brothers 3 was that the original Super Mario Brothers was, according to Miyamoto at the time, “an introduction to the Mushroom Kingdom” and Super Mario Brothers 3 was to fully “explore the worlds of the Mushroom Kingdom.” In other words, content, not ‘innovation’ was the drive. Super Mario Brother 3 became immortal not because of ‘innovative gameplay’ (very little innovative in the game at the time aside from ‘flying’ and maps to display stages) but because of the sheer amount of quality content inside the game.

...

http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2009/05/26/translating-iwata/

My view is that Nintendo keeps making sequels to N64 and Gamecube games instead of sequels to NES and SNES games. Mario Kart was in the wilderness until the director of Mario Kart DS said, “We are going to beat the SNES Mario Kart,” and the game was designed to get back to those roots. Mario Kart Wii followed in that vision (Mario Kart Wii is far more difficult to master than Double Dash [and has far more content]). Mario Sunshine and Mario Galaxy met with a collective yawn from the market. New Super Mario Brothers, a 2d Mario made, somewhat, in the fashion of NES and SNES era type gaming, ends up being one of the best selling games ever made trumping even Super Mario Brothers 3’s sales.
So why do sequels made in NES/SNES fashion work better than N64/Gamecube fashion (with the exception of Zelda)? In the past, such as the NES/SNES era, games were based on content meaning ideas and mythos. The arcade era gameplay leaking into the consoles games also didn’t hurt. The N64/Gamecube era type games seem obsessed over ‘innovation’ rather than content. Ooohhh, so Mario has a water pack now? So what? Oooohhh, Mario can float through space. And? Using Miyamoto’s own words from that Nintendo Power interview of when he was developing Super Mario Brothers 3 was that the original Super Mario Brothers was, according to Miyamoto at the time, “an introduction to the Mushroom Kingdom” and Super Mario Brothers 3 was to fully “explore the worlds of the Mushroom Kingdom.” In other words, content, not ‘innovation’ was the drive. Super Mario Brother 3 became immortal not because of ‘innovative gameplay’ (very little innovative in the game at the time aside from ‘flying’ and maps to display stages) but because of the sheer amount of quality content inside the game.

I'd have to agree with him (and Miyamoto apparently) Super Mario Bros. 3 is my favorite of the Mario games because of all the content. All the different levels and items and enemy's .etc makes it better than any other Mario game I've played.

Too much focus has been put on what the new systems were capable of. Ever since Super Mario World (Dinosaur World) the games have been lacking in content and forgotten it's mythos.

I think it's probably why Super Mario Galaxy and Zelda: Twighlight Princess weren't system sellers like Wii Fit and Mario Kart Wii were.



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Shanobi on 27 May 2009

Super Mario Galaxy? Not a system seller? Are we talking about the game that won nearly every game of the year award, and is the highest rated game of this generation?

As for Twilight Princess, if you can't accept that as a classically awesome game, then I don't know what else to say.

This Malstrom person needs more B vitamins.



 

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famousringo on 27 May 2009

I guess we'll see how Punch Out!! does. It's the very definition of an NES game that's packed full of content.



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Gnac on 27 May 2009

I thought the N64 and Gamecube versions of Punch-Out set a really high precedent for the Wii.



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amp316 on 27 May 2009

Malstrom's right.

The extremely innovative and fresh Excite Bots isn't selling at all.

PunchOut!! which feels like an update more than a sequel will probably sell around 900 billion copies.



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nintendo_fanboy on 27 May 2009

I don't know if he's right or not, but I think he has way too little prove for his claims.

I mean, the difference between Mario Kart Wii and Mario Kart Double Dash isn't that big to take it as the ultimate prove, and Mario Galaxy's problem when talking about sales compared to NSMB is probably mainly the 2D/3D thing.



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Alterego-X on 27 May 2009
Shanobi said:
Super Mario Galaxy? Not a system seller? Are we talking about the game that won nearly every game of the year award, and is the highest rated game of this generation?

As for Twilight Princess, if you can't accept that as a classically awesome game, then I don't know what else to say.

This Malstrom person needs more B vitamins.

Yeah, because GOTY awards and ratings are the most objective representatives of the average user's preferences... NOT! 

While it definitely wasn't a flop, it lost the opportunity to be the Wii's killer app, like SMB 3 for the NES, or Wii Sports, and Wii Fit that finally took this role. 

 

Classically awesome=/=most popular.  Malstrom even talked about this effect right in his next post after that one, on another subject, describing how "Both Excite Truck and Excite Bots look destined to be cult classics due to their low sales and intense reception among core gamers."



stof on 27 May 2009

Mario Kart Wii is selling it's phenomenal numbers because it's a guaranteed 7 million seller to start, with the addition of coming with the Wii wheel and appealing to new gamers on what is going to be the most successful console of all time... I really don't think it has anything to do with which predecessor gave them the most inspiration.

And the only thing to match Galaxy's innovation IS it's Content. The game has tons of absolutely earth shattering content. I must say I don't really agree with this article.



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Shanobi on 27 May 2009
stof said:
Mario Kart Wii is selling it's phenomenal numbers because it's a guaranteed 7 million seller to start, with the addition of coming with the Wii wheel and appealing to new gamers on what is going to be the most successful console of all time... I really don't think it has anything to do with which predecessor gave them the most inspiration.

And the only thing to match Galaxy's innovation IS it's Content. The game has tons of absolutely earth shattering content. I must say I don't really agree with this article.

 

Exactly. That's WHY it won all those awards and acclaim, and why it's the best selling 3d platformer to come along in a long while.

 

It's got to be the best selling 3d platformer since Mario 64, no? And if that's the case, then Malstrom's arguement is null.



 

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Naum on 27 May 2009

"Mario Galaxy met with a collective yawn from the market"


...?? almost 9 million sold...? WTF.



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