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Forums - Sony - Cage: Heavy Rain not possible on Xbox 360

Hapimeses on 17 May 2009
NightAntilli said:

That's because the PS3 is mainly a brag platform.. No offense.

Could you explain that more fully as I'm not sure what you mean?



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forevercloud3000 on 17 May 2009

@dclkeel
Only in the last gen has Sony ever been outmatched in hardware. They simply were not prepared for what the competition would bring. Yet in PS1 era, people chose it because of it's leaps and bounds over the Nintendo 64 as well. It is nothing new that Playstation fans are into powerful consoles.

On the other hand, PS2 had all the games last go round. No denying that. To skip out on PS2 was to not play games at all. And PS2, while inferior, definitly proved it could hold it's own with games like God of War and Persona at the end of it's life.



      

      

      

Greatness Awaits

PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)

Reasonable on 17 May 2009

It's curious that in discussions on power for game consoles the argument always comes around to graphics and resolution. While I wish developers wouldn't come out with these statements there are other elements to videogames than just the on-screen image.



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

headshot91 on 17 May 2009
waron said:
not again "sony payed us to make ps3 exclusive so we say it's not possible on a 360 despite the fact that it looks worse than some of 3rd party multiplatform games on xbox 360" crap.

 

that statement is crap. So, the game isnt even out yet, has very little competition on the 360 in its respective niche (any competition?!) and so how can you say it looks worse than a 3rd party developed game? Does not make sense, and just because sony is going to make it exclusive doesnt mean they asked them to say its not possible on 360.



headshot91 on 17 May 2009
XxXProphecyXxX said:
dcIKeeL said:
twingo said:
360 cant run the same amount of physics PS3 can, it cant have worlds as big/detailed.

 

 I'm soooo tired of this nonsense!! Do you sony drones truly believe that in the same generation 1 particular system is so advanced that whole games can't be replicated on the competition? Especially since the core technology for both systems is the SAME because, gee idk, they were developed by the SAME GUY!!?!?

Besides, last gen, all you sony fanboys were so quick to dismiss graphical prowess when the sony platform was clearly inferior, as opposed to now, where all people hear is, "wait until blank game and you'll see the true power of ps3 and its cell". The truth is graphics are nice, but they dont make the game, they compliment it. and like aussiegecko said: "its just a marketing gib".

Which ever system is graphically superior is only slightly superior, not 1-2 generations superior. BTW, when looking at pure specs, 360 slightly edges ps3...sooo quit the trolling u tarts

And yet ps3 game stand out more in graphic department such as Uncharted 1 and 2 KZ2 GT5 MGS4 and heavyrain.

 

First of all i think twingo is right about the physics area, ps3 is more avanced in that respect than the 360. no need to call him a sony drone.

You are misguided when looking at pure specs as apart from being , i think, quite subjective, on the technical aspects anyway, when looking at what you get in the actual console e.g. wifi, blu ray player, internet etc, the ps3 trumps the 360 in that repect. PLus the 7 spe's do mean that ps3 is better than the 360 for physics programs. You stop trolling eh?

 



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RAZurrection on 17 May 2009

You mustn't have played resisistance 2. It's in every way and form many times more advanced than call of duty 4.

I have played it and numerous reviews confirmed it wasn't as technically abled, it's surprising that Resistance doesn't run at 60fps given it's exclusive, but then Insomniac isn't as talented as Infinity Ward.

that chap would have to get his code to run on two entirely different systems. While he may be better, theres an equal chance that he is more generalised and doesn't know as much about either as one who specialises would.

Doesn't matter how many systems the game ultimately comes out for, it's a case of visuals over visuals and in many cases CoD4 (and onwards) will always look and run better than Resistance 1 & 2, Battlefield Bad Company (and onwards) will always look better than MAG. At the end of the day it's talent that counts better for visuals then exclusivity. 

Show me a game with a animation system half as advanced as uncharted. The whole game is streamed and drake has more than 30 animations running on him alone at any given time.

Animations? The Club, Assasins Creed, it's sequel, any 3D fighting game, any Capcom games cutscenes ae about a generation ahead of U2.

Visials? Gears of War 1 & 2, Killzone 2, RE5, Lost Planet 2, Rage, Alan Wake, Assassins Creed 2, Saboteur.

You forgot to write "Unreal engine 3 multiplatform games"

 

No, all of them. The PS3 is essentially crippled for MP games and not limited to just UE3 games, but it does appear to be more crippled in that engine than others. It's very interesting how the PS3 can't handle this generations most popular engine properly.

The issue with multiplatforms are that the developers won't invest time into the ps3 and just drops everything on the ppu.

It's not the developers fault Sony built a console that wasn't future proof.

However, when they start tapping the spus.. that's where they find out about the juice.

And yet multiplatform games continue to outshadow them, i'm beginning to think that Sony wasn't prepared for the onslaught of third parties outdoing them in the visuals front, this is what happens when your lead platform has development libraries and proper tools.

That doesn't make his opinions right though.

Perhaps not, but given that they're making the most advanced console engine for a title that isn't exclusive that pretty much speaks for itself.

Also. All your arguments are old and pretty much disproved. lol

More like you have no leverage and have run out of argument.

 



headshot91 on 17 May 2009

Show me a game with a animation system half as advanced as uncharted. The whole game is streamed and drake has more than 30 animations running on him alone at any given time.

Animations? The Club, Assasins Creed, it's sequel, any 3D fighting game, any Capcom games cutscenes ae about a generation ahead of U2.

Visials? Gears of War 1 & 2, Killzone 2, RE5, Lost Planet 2, Rage, Alan Wake, Assassins Creed 2, Saboteur

of course your opinion and his are totally subjective. Unless you can get numbers for any of your games that you say have better animation systems than uncharted or uncharted 2, your arguement can't really hold up. Uncharted 1 has about 300 different animation sequences and i suspect u2 has at least 10 percent more than that. Furthermore cutscenes are kind of unfair as most are rendered and not really comparable to real time. Plus i think that uncharted 2 is at least a match for gow2 in the technical department, infact i bet uncharted1 would give it a run for its money.



Staude on 17 May 2009
headshot91 said:
XxXProphecyXxX said:
dcIKeeL said:
twingo said:
360 cant run the same amount of physics PS3 can, it cant have worlds as big/detailed.

 

 I'm soooo tired of this nonsense!! Do you sony drones truly believe that in the same generation 1 particular system is so advanced that whole games can't be replicated on the competition? Especially since the core technology for both systems is the SAME because, gee idk, they were developed by the SAME GUY!!?!?

Besides, last gen, all you sony fanboys were so quick to dismiss graphical prowess when the sony platform was clearly inferior, as opposed to now, where all people hear is, "wait until blank game and you'll see the true power of ps3 and its cell". The truth is graphics are nice, but they dont make the game, they compliment it. and like aussiegecko said: "its just a marketing gib".

Which ever system is graphically superior is only slightly superior, not 1-2 generations superior. BTW, when looking at pure specs, 360 slightly edges ps3...sooo quit the trolling u tarts

And yet ps3 game stand out more in graphic department such as Uncharted 1 and 2 KZ2 GT5 MGS4 and heavyrain.

 

First of all i think twingo is right about the physics area, ps3 is more avanced in that respect than the 360. no need to call him a sony drone.

You are misguided when looking at pure specs as apart from being , i think, quite subjective, on the technical aspects anyway, when looking at what you get in the actual console e.g. wifi, blu ray player, internet etc, the ps3 trumps the 360 in that repect. PLus the 7 spe's do mean that ps3 is better than the 360 for physics programs. You stop trolling eh?

 

 

If you look at the pure specs what you'll see is 9 active processors at 3.2ghz in the ps3 and 3 in the 360.

And ram wize you'll see 512mg gddr3 rams in the 360 operating at 700mhz while you'll see 256mb gddr3 ram in the ps3 operating at 700 mhz and 256 mb xdr ram operating at 3.2 ghz.

 

:p

 

Furthermore. Practically all multiplat games that run worse on the ps3 were either early in the life cycle, on the unreal engine (built for singlecore technology. Fitting with the 360 because it's cores share. Bottlenecking eachother) or in general made by developers who dump everything on the ppu (one of the ps3s cores) not using the spus.

Yes if you only use the ppu you can get a slightly inferior game to using all 3 of the 360s cores :p

But heres the trick. There are 6.5 other processors you can use. And they'll do anything. You can throw ai at them, various junk code, Rendering. That's right. The SPUs can render FOR the graphics card. I showed this like.. Yep i posted these pics on the first page. But i'll post them again.

I suggest you read the whole pdf. It's pretty interesting. What I showed you was just an example within the pdf.

This was from santa monicas keynote at this years gdc.

http://www.tilander.org/aurora/comp/gdc2009_Tilander_Filippov_SPU.pdf

The ps3 is also used by scientists because the powerful processor matches that of a super computer and it's used in the WORLDS STRONGEST COMPUTER. You don't think they would opt for the much cheaper 360 if it had anywhere near the same amount of juice ?



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Reasonable on 17 May 2009
RAZurrection said:

You mustn't have played resisistance 2. It's in every way and form many times more advanced than call of duty 4.

I have played it and numerous reviews confirmed it wasn't as technically abled, it's surprising that Resistance doesn't run at 60fps given it's exclusive, but then Insomniac isn't as talented as Infinity Ward.

that chap would have to get his code to run on two entirely different systems. While he may be better, theres an equal chance that he is more generalised and doesn't know as much about either as one who specialises would.

Doesn't matter how many systems the game ultimately comes out for, it's a case of visuals over visuals and in many cases CoD4 (and onwards) will always look and run better than Resistance 1 & 2, Battlefield Bad Company (and onwards) will always look better than MAG. At the end of the day it's talent that counts better for visuals then exclusivity. 

Show me a game with a animation system half as advanced as uncharted. The whole game is streamed and drake has more than 30 animations running on him alone at any given time.

Animations? The Club, Assasins Creed, it's sequel, any 3D fighting game, any Capcom games cutscenes ae about a generation ahead of U2.

Visials? Gears of War 1 & 2, Killzone 2, RE5, Lost Planet 2, Rage, Alan Wake, Assassins Creed 2, Saboteur.

You forgot to write "Unreal engine 3 multiplatform games"

 

No, all of them. The PS3 is essentially crippled for MP games and not limited to just UE3 games, but it does appear to be more crippled in that engine than others. It's very interesting how the PS3 can't handle this generations most popular engine properly.

The issue with multiplatforms are that the developers won't invest time into the ps3 and just drops everything on the ppu.

It's not the developers fault Sony built a console that wasn't future proof.

However, when they start tapping the spus.. that's where they find out about the juice.

And yet multiplatform games continue to outshadow them, i'm beginning to think that Sony wasn't prepared for the onslaught of third parties outdoing them in the visuals front, this is what happens when your lead platform has development libraries and proper tools.

That doesn't make his opinions right though.

Perhaps not, but given that they're making the most advanced console engine for a title that isn't exclusive that pretty much speaks for itself.

Also. All your arguments are old and pretty much disproved. lol

More like you have no leverage and have run out of argument.

 

I'd happily agree on CoD4 being better than R2 - but you're way off on Uncharted 2.  On the evidence on Assassin's Creed has a chance of matching it for animations, etc.  The original Uncharted animations were much better the The Club, etc that you mention.

Also, there's no mystery regarding Unreal engine on PS3.  The Unreal engine was built initially for the PC only.  The 360 design makes it easy to take across PC engines such as Unreal (or Source) - the PS3 architecture is quite different and not a natural fit.  I'd argue that the real issue was the a) Epic were slow to optimize the engine for PS3 (understanable though given their focus on tuning it for 360 for Gears) and that b) developers licencing the engine never do as good a job as Epic anyway so produced poor results with the engine on PS3.

The general consenus is that Uncharted occupies the top range of graphical games on HD consoles - it's also widely noted from the material so far released that U2 is going to be a serious condenter for the new king of graphics on HD consoles (although Alan Wake, Heavy Rain and Assassin's Creed 2 will likely compete hard too).

There's no point allowing your arguements to decend to silly levels implying U2 isn't going to murder most if not all multi-platform titles on the HD consoles.

The best graphics on either HD have been exclusives, Gears on 360, titles like KZ2 and Uncharted on PS3.

As for IW - CoD4 graphics are actually not that great, however IW's great strength has never been graphics (no CoD game has been the top graphical game at release).  IW are the masters of creating fantastic SP combat levels and MP, with good graphics but never setting the bar.

 

 

 



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

Staude on 17 May 2009
RAZurrection said:

You mustn't have played resisistance 2. It's in every way and form many times more advanced than call of duty 4.

I have played it and numerous reviews confirmed it wasn't as technically abled, it's surprising that Resistance doesn't run at 60fps given it's exclusive, but then Insomniac isn't as talented as Infinity Ward.

Cod 4 has like 20 players online. Resistance 2 has 60 players online.

Cod 4 does not really have co-op. Resistance 2 has 8 player co-op

Practically all of cod 4 are in closed or limited enviroments while resistance 2 takes place in huge open enviroments

Resistance 2 is far more advanced than cod4. And some aspects look better. However, that does not equal technical superiority. The other things does.

that chap would have to get his code to run on two entirely different systems. While he may be better, theres an equal chance that he is more generalised and doesn't know as much about either as one who specialises would.

Doesn't matter how many systems the game ultimately comes out for, it's a case of visuals over visuals and in many cases CoD4 (and onwards) will always look and run better than Resistance 1 & 2, Battlefield Bad Company (and onwards) will always look better than MAG. At the end of the day it's talent that counts better for visuals then exclusivity. 

...... Seriously ? lol. I mean.. Comon man. Can't you hear how rediculous what you're saying comes off ? You have no idea how game development and engines work do you ?

Battlefield bad company will look better than mag ? congrats. Mag only has 256players online at the same time. Do you know what that means? everything that happens in the map has to be sent to the play (information) and everything the player does has to be sent to the server and then to the other players. In other word. time that 256 times and you have mag.

The mag developer said it pretty well himself.

In call of duty, you'll hear some action going on and you'll know it's scripted.. but in this game, you can hear explosions in the distance.. you can actually go over there to check out whats going on.. and help your team if you want to.

Show me a game with a animation system half as advanced as uncharted. The whole game is streamed and drake has more than 30 animations running on him alone at any given time.

Animations? The Club, Assasins Creed, it's sequel, any 3D fighting game, any Capcom games cutscenes ae about a generation ahead of U2.

Visials? Gears of War 1 & 2, Killzone 2, RE5, Lost Planet 2, Rage, Alan Wake, Assassins Creed 2, Saboteur.

lol NO they're a generation behind. Visually I don't really think that all of your games does the trick. In particular the gears of war games. I'm not sure if you've played through uncharted. Cause it sounds like you dont. All the games you mentioned above, Does NOT have that amount of things happening animations wise at once.

Infact ALL of the games you mentioned are a generation behind uncharted. I'm not talking abotu cutscenes. But INGAME. Yes, ingame naughty dog had around 30 animations Running on drake, at all times. All of the games you mention has 1. And it shows. You are confusing things. More than that, cutscenes in uncharted were all mo-capped. You know what that means ? you can't have cutscenes a generation ahead of it because it's the closest to real people you're gonna get. And it shows. But i was only discussing ingame. When you are moving around.

Gears 1 does certainly not look as good as uncharted and gears 2 is a big maybe. Especially because it's not as technically advanced as uncharted. .. I'll give a maybe to resident evil 5. It didn't seem very impressive from the demo. But games don't often do. It felt stiff and while it might have better textures, again animation wise it's behind. All games are. There is no game on the market that does anything near uncharted animation wise.

Killzone 2 also has impressive animations. But for slightly different reasons.

You forgot to write "Unreal engine 3 multiplatform games"

 

No, all of them. The PS3 is essentially crippled for MP games and not limited to just UE3 games, but it does appear to be more crippled in that engine than others. It's very interesting how the PS3 can't handle this generations most popular engine properly.

The issue with multiplatforms are that the developers won't invest time into the ps3 and just drops everything on the ppu.

It's not the developers fault Sony built a console that wasn't future proof.

lol... No seriously. Lol

However, when they start tapping the spus.. that's where they find out about the juice.

And yet multiplatform games continue to outshadow them, i'm beginning to think that Sony wasn't prepared for the onslaught of third parties outdoing them in the visuals front, this is what happens when your lead platform has development libraries and proper tools.

Outshadow what ? theres no third party developed games that look as good as some of their first party games. You have no idea what you're talking about and this is a waste of my time. Instead of being a blind fanboy. Learn something about game development. Now if you read this you might wanna call me the same. But atleast i know what i'm talking about as i've done my research and you seem to be fetching for straws while countering with already disproven arguments.

That doesn't make his opinions right though.

Perhaps not, but given that they're making the most advanced console engine for a title that isn't exclusive that pretty much speaks for itself.

Orly ? So because it has big textures it's the most advanced ? Again. Research

Also. All your arguments are old and pretty much disproved. lol

More like you have no leverage and have run out of argument.

Research.


Hold on i'll say it again Research. You countered everything i said with something irrelevent to what i said. I assume that's because you couldn't counter it had you done your... Research. Or atleast you would have tried more intelligently.

 

 



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