well if I'm not welcome here anymore (so it seems)... that problem can be solved.

 i never stated such a thing. you just need to know how many SF'boys / Msf'boys we had already that all stated sony's or MS's numbers are right we are off we need to change etc etc

please try to understand my (im sure others agree with me tho) frustration.

 I do agree myself.  Gets a little frustrating to see the "The numbers need to be adjusted" threads that pop up all the time.  And they always are disproven or shown how the numbers in their thread actually support ioi's.

How accurate do you think manufacturer numbers are anyway? Sure they have employees and a vested interest versus volunteered information here, but it's not like Microsoft has unlimited resources to track sold to consumer numbers. They do not have an infinite ability to be accurate.

Besides, I thought VGChatz is regularly calibrated against other somewhat reliable independent sources like NPD. So either NPD is out, or Microsoft is. Personally I'd trust the independents over MS any day. And make no mistake, there is no real shareholder legal requirement for accurate reporting of consumer numbers by the big three, seen as they sell their wares to retailers and not direct to consumers.

You forget about all the ancient 360's sitting on store shelves in Japan.

11.6 (now) isn't unreasonable though, we have seen the emergence the HDMI units and they are pretty much everywhere. The 11.6 million shipped by June wouldn't have included HDMI and those do seem to be sold out.

What ever, it's still incredibly close for a hobby site.

This sites numbers are being adjusted all the time when new data is made available. A poster brings some new data, and gets gang banged for doing so. The goal is to get the most exact numbers possible, and not to blindly defend the numbers as they stand right now. Those numbers will not be the same in a month regardless. I have been on this site long enough to see tens of thousands hell hundreds of thousands of systems vanish, and appear out of thin air.

We have to remain open minded about all data. I find a post that says the sites numbers are wrong I post it. When you see widely different numbers you need to understand why they are different. I hope everyone is serious about getting the absolute best numbers we can get. We will never have perfect numbers, and there are going to be errors. However let me say this the original article posted is being relayed on many sites as reliable. Some of those sites being reputable.

 we definently need a rule for not being allowed to, but on the other hand, we might get Neogaffy then, so just don't, do it for political correctness!

If you're going to make a claim that the numbers are off, you better have viable, solid sources to confirm it. This is just some post saying "Well, Microsoft said so..."

11.6 seems about right for retail as of June.....on VGC the end of June numbers are about 10.1 million, so that was 1.5mln on store shelves (or in retail stock), seeing as the Wii retail sale number seems to be about 6-800k more than VGC sell through it makes sense 360 was double that back then (RROD not fixed yet/no price cut....sales were slow around then)

this number seems to me to fit in with VGC (and in fact the Financial Times numbers which were for end of July/August for Japan (not inc UK sales)

why can people not see that.
also 11.6mln consumer sales now isn't unreasonable in terms of how far VGC could be out, but again VGC numbers fit with the FT numbers so i doubt VGC is 600k out in the past few weeks.

Yeah , thats actually pretty close to my expectations ... though seeing how well MS consoles are tracked I think the numbers might be slightly lower :)