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Forums - General Discussion - Is Britian Turning Into A Totalitarian State ?

Kasz216 on 09 May 2009
SciFiBoy said:
Kasz216 said:
Closing down Immigration isn't a racism issue. It's a reality issue.

If you let as many people into the country as want to be there.... it's quickly going to be overcrowded... and if your a country like the Uk... your really going to be hurt as socialist programs have more and more mouths to feed when the number of employed doesn't grow as fast.

It's like what happens in third world countries.

People flood the cities and the infrastructure can't handle it and the cities end up collapsing.

 

the UK is doing just fine, immigration isnt really an problem from what i can tell, its nowhere near the levels that would cause disruption on that scale, even relaxing our immigration laws, we would still more than cope, especially as many immigrants here come from the EU to work, so they boost the economy, without immigration, i doubt our 10 year boom would have been so good.

i dont see why we shouldnt let people in, sure, we cant let everyone in, but i dont think we need closed borders on any of that bs, why shouldnt we let who we can afford to let in, in?

 

The UK limits their immigration... quite a bit.

As for letting in those who you can let in...

Well that's still basically being "Racist" in your definition.

Since if you are going to set up limits you'd need criteria and the criteria are largely going to be "Who can help the country the most" which in turn is going to "screw" people born in certain circumstances in certain countries.

The large worry some people have though is a lot of these people come from places less "foward" socially.

As such they have different ideas about the roles of women in society, religion, and many other things.

 

To put it in terms you can understand as to what they're afraid of.

 

Picture immigrants coming every year in large numbers... who believe women shouldn't vote and religion should be taught at all schools.  These people are coming in to your country at a constant pace, and have a higher birth rate then the "locals".  As such eventually they will surpass the locals and gain the rights to change the laws of the land.

If they still hold those past views... there is nothing that can be done to for those who respect democracy.



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Tyrannical on 09 May 2009
Kasz216 said:

Usually second and third generation immigrants give up a lot of their cultures though.

 

 

 It depends on the immigrants, what their host culture was and how compatable it is with our own.

Germans, Italians, Irish, English, and other western cultured immigrants adapted well into Americanized western culture. That's what the "melting pot" referred too, it never reffered to non-westernized peoples.

We have far too many Hispanics in the US now, and that is keeping them from culturaly integrating. Other immigrants such as Muslims have no desire to live as we do in the US.



Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
 — Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire

TheRealMafoo on 09 May 2009
Tyrannical said:
The crisis of the West is a collapsing culture and vanishing peoples, as a Third World that grows by 100 million people, the equivalent of a new Mexico, every 18 months, mounts the greatest invasion in history of the world. If we do not shake off our paralysis, the West comes to an end.-- Pat Buchanan

 

I would chill out with the Pat Buchanan quotes. One could also use this one:

 

"Though Hitler was indeed racist and anti-Semitic to the core, a man who without compunction could commit murder and genocide, he was also an individual of great courage, a soldier's soldier in the Great War, a political organizer of the first rank, a leader steeped in the history of Europe, who possessed oratorical powers that could awe even those who despised him...Hitler's success was not based on his extraordinary gifts alone. His genius was an intuitive sense of the mushiness, the character flaws, the weakness masquerading as morality that was in the hearts of the statesmen who stood in his path." -- Pat Buchanan.

 

or the many other quotes of his that show Nazi sympathy. When talking about immigration, I am not sure I would want to stand behind him as my spokesman. 



Tyrannical on 09 May 2009
TheRealMafoo said:

 

I would chill out with the Pat Buchanan quotes. One could also use this one:

 

"Though Hitler was indeed racist and anti-Semitic to the core, a man who without compunction could commit murder and genocide, he was also an individual of great courage, a soldier's soldier in the Great War, a political organizer of the first rank, a leader steeped in the history of Europe, who possessed oratorical powers that could awe even those who despised him...Hitler's success was not based on his extraordinary gifts alone. His genius was an intuitive sense of the mushiness, the character flaws, the weakness masquerading as morality that was in the hearts of the statesmen who stood in his path." -- Pat Buchanan.

 

or the many other quotes of his that show Nazi sympathy. When talking about immigration, I am not sure I would want to stand behind him as my spokesman. 

You could say the same thing about many a brutal leader. I don't see anything remotely anti-semetic or pro-hitler in that quote as you seem to imply. Buchanan was merely stating characteristics that Hitler had, characteristics that many leaders both good or evil had that made a big name for themselves.

 



Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
 — Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire

TheRealMafoo on 09 May 2009
Tyrannical said:
TheRealMafoo said:

 

I would chill out with the Pat Buchanan quotes. One could also use this one:

 

"Though Hitler was indeed racist and anti-Semitic to the core, a man who without compunction could commit murder and genocide, he was also an individual of great courage, a soldier's soldier in the Great War, a political organizer of the first rank, a leader steeped in the history of Europe, who possessed oratorical powers that could awe even those who despised him...Hitler's success was not based on his extraordinary gifts alone. His genius was an intuitive sense of the mushiness, the character flaws, the weakness masquerading as morality that was in the hearts of the statesmen who stood in his path." -- Pat Buchanan.

 

or the many other quotes of his that show Nazi sympathy. When talking about immigration, I am not sure I would want to stand behind him as my spokesman. 

You could say the same thing about many a brutal leader. I don't see anything remotely anti-semetic or pro-hitler in that quote as you seem to imply. Buchanan was merely stating characteristics that Hitler had, characteristics that many leaders both good or evil had that made a big name for themselves.

 

 

Well, most US politicians don't have an entire Wiki section on anti-semitism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Buchanan#Accusations_of_Anti-Semitism



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Tyrannical on 09 May 2009
TheRealMafoo said:

 

Well, most US politicians don't have an entire Wiki section on anti-semitism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Buchanan#Accusations_of_Anti-Semitism

 

 Buchanan was against US involvement in both word wars, and is against meddeling in the middle east.

Some of his opponents like to paint him as anti-semetic because he is not a Zionist. Not everything that is in Israel's best interest is in the US's best interest. Buchanan as an American beleives US intererts trump Israel's.



Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
 — Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire

Soleron on 09 May 2009

Britain is not becoming totalitarian; the government are doing what they believe the people want (reducing terrorism) when in fact not only do the measures have no effect on terrorism but they severely curtail civil liberties and cost millions of pounds.

I'm an advocate of repealing all of these laws, and letting terrorism be investigated like normal crimes with normal powers.

Anyway, the government is the most unpopular it's been since 1997 and the Labour Party is looking weak and fragmented. With a General Election certain to happen next May, the Conservative opposition (which, despite the name, actually appears to be on the side of civil liberties and common sense at the moment) is very likely to win.

So the situation is temporary. Therefore I'm not worried.



highwaystar101 on 09 May 2009
Tyrannical said:
SciFiBoy said:

if people dont like the UK or US theyre unlikely to move here anyway, so your point is kinda mute, its like saying pigeons dont like park a, so they will ruin park a, when in actuallity, the pigeons will just go to park b or stay away from parks

why should nationalism or patriotism be requirements to live in a nation? surely someone who thinks the nation is ok and wants to live here for whatever reason has every right to do so? if anything there better than some crackpot who hates foreigners for no reason

who the fuck is pat buchannan?

Welcome your fellow UK Citizens.

 

The crisis of the West is a collapsing culture and vanishing peoples, as a Third World that grows by 100 million people, the equivalent of a new Mexico, every 18 months, mounts the greatest invasion in history of the world. If we do not shake off our paralysis, the West comes to an end.-- Pat Buchanan

Your comments are getting increasingly and more frequently insulting Tyranical.

I suggest you watch the episode of Charlie Brookers newswipe when he talks about this Islamic protest in the UK.

By the way, guy in the bottom left hand corner looks a lot like my mate Amjid, hmmm?



SamuelRSmith on 09 May 2009
Kasz216 said:
People flood the cities and the infrastructure can't handle it and the cities end up collapsing.

 

The only problem I see with that statement is that, actually, immigrants bring more money into this country proportionally than people born here.

Immigrants make up 8-9% of the population, yet they attribute to 10-11% of the total GDP. 



SamuelRSmith on 09 May 2009
Kasz216 said:
The UK limits their immigration... quite a bit.

 

 We have no control on the amount of immigrants coming from within the EU. Which, really, is where the majority of immigrants come from.