There are some common concepts in video games that people do outgrow: ultra-violence, gratuitous fanservice, and the like. But these things have never really been a major part of the Final Fantasy series: certainly not enough for the games to be listed as things people grow out of naturally.

@Khuutra, I haven't played FF12. I gave up on FF a long time ago, but it sounds like FF12 is so radically different that it really pissed off a lot of the new fans, which makes it sound like I'd enjoy it. But I have fickle tastes when it comes to RPGs, and I'm one of the few who thought The World Ends With You was complete garbage.

@pastro243, I'm not saying good or bad or better or worse. I'm just saying that there is a definite break where they moved to a new target demographic. FF7 with its wacky hairdos and really long cutscenes (and massive marketing push) made more money than any previous FF. So Square kept going in that direction. Not better, not worse, just not for Rubang.

@OP, the main problem is that they claim that it's okay to lose their older fans because they'll bring in younger fans. And... that's not happening. Not counting the online one, FF12 sold the fewest copies of any FF on a Sony console, even though it had the highest potential userbase of any FF game ever made. Even sold less than FFX-2. So they're telling the older fans "It's okay, we don't need you" when they clearly do. Sales are stagnating.

I still think there is no such thing as the mature and complex narrative in pre 7 FF, at least not more than in the latter. Now if you think complex things can only happen to adults in a fantasy game then thats your problem.

 I just responded to someone that said that in FF4 there where "only" 3 not adult party character, and since Cloud is 21 in the game, he is an adult, barret we both have it clear, tifa is the same age as cloud, Vincent is young but still an adult, I dont remember his age though.

 I still stand that its nostalgia that makes you think all those older FF where so much better, after all, I think you werent adults when the first ones came out.

I dont see why the cutscenes are so wrong to some when they added emotional content to the game which many of the older ones lacked. Its like now being more emotional is stupid, when these games are partly art and art is about emotion. I know u will say even with the cutscenes all of the content is shallow, but if u think like that u dont see what I see in these games.

To finish Im gonna say that maybe Im a teen(18 and go to the university and all the things that people my age do) that doesnt make my mind less complicated than an older guy ones and the forms of entertainment I seek may be different to yours(they surely are) and that doesnt make it worse.

FF changed from what it was in the beggining, and thats evolving, Im affraid the thing that would make u think FF1 is better than 12 is nostalgia.

In fairness, Rubang, to the best of my knowledge TWEWY and FF12 could not be more different.

Yeah, I didnt like TWEWY but did like ff12

I think people who say FF is "going bad" need to stop picking up the games, like Mr Rubang. I mean, it's like they only do it so they can tell other people in forums how much the game that they love so much sucks. Rubang saw something he didn't like and there we go, no more FF for him. Simple. No hating involved.

I personally never felt such a big shift in any FF. I never felt that any FF was similar to another. I felt FFVII was just as diferent from all other FFs as any other FF is diferent from any other game in the series. To tell you the truth, I never felt any maturity in them either. To say that any FF is more mature than another one it's a complete joke. They're all cliched, unbelievable characters mixed in an unblievable, cliched plot. Wanna see believable characters? Go watch "Before Sunrise" (or its sequel) or "The Squid and The Whale" to see some of the most believable dialog ever written. Games are not supposed to have believable characters. They're supposed be interesting, I'll give you that, but even that's subjective.

I also never associated emo with FF till someone on the internet said it. Actually I don't even see it now, but it's not like I buy into this emo fad (I don't mean the guys with the clothes, make up and atitude, I mean calling people emo, which to me became an even worst fad). It's just another way of insulting people on forums, which is the way of the internet, I guess.

I enjoyed every FF I've ever played (except maybe VIII) and that's why I keep playing them. I'm even allowed to criticize it, 'cause I like them and I am doing it because I want the series to grow. The same way I don't go into shooter forums to call Halo or Call of Duty a piece of crap, FF haters should keep away from FF related threads. Go hate somwhere else.

Agree, thats why its a fantasy game, something like studio ghibli films, they all have children as protagonists and no complex dialog but they have emotionality and a message behind that can be showed to anyone older than 13.

And I agree with you in the second part where there is a fad in calling people emo in the internet. Its like people believe when a movie or such has some emotion its automatically emo and stupid, for young and inmature kids, and that is lack of maturity and believe they are more manly when they probably are as nerds as the other ones.

It's not too difficult. Going back playing FF4, Crono Trigger, and FF6; I honestly don't think they're all that speacial.

haha lol im glad to know that its not because the last several FF games have sucked. Im glad i "grew out of them"

While I agree with the second sentence, I'm not so sure I agree with the first one. Final Fantasy V certainly didn't take itself seriously, but IV and most especially VI did. I mean, Terra spent 90% of her game feeling sorry for herself, Celes (might have) had her attempted suicide scene, Cyan spends most of the game beating himself up for letting his family and country die, Shadow was basically the first Vincent, etc.

I don't think so. Cecil's age is never specified, but I don't think he's past his early 20's. Bartz is definitely not that old, and I believe Terra is still a teenager (granted, I'm not sure Terra's really the "main character," but...).

By contrast, Cloud is in his early 20's, Squall isn't too far behind, Zidane is probably still a teen, Tidus is definitely a yung'un, and Vaan...I can't say, because I still haven't played XII, but he certainly doesn't look like he can legally drink yet.

I struggle with responding to this post. On the one hand, I hate it when a series goes out of its way to "grow up" with its initial fanbase, as so few series make the jump correctly. Plus, gaming must appeal to kids, or else it will die out.

On the other hand, I do understand the sentiment. I think the solution lies in not trying to specifically narrow your audience: done right, entertainment can appeal to a very wide demographic (see: Harry Potter), and it seems to me that Squeenix is doing themselves a disservice by trying to say that X group is much more important than all the others when crafting their products.

Perhaps, but the theory is inconsistent. Why would we outgrow the newer titles, but still adore the old ones? I think there's something different going on here.

I'm not convinced of this either. It seems to me that some of the games have actually been trying to take on more mature themes as time goes on: where IV had a fairly simple (but well-paced and executed) plot about saving your love and then the world, VI did more philosophical "who am I?" things, VIII essentially tried to be a love story, and X is about growing up in the shadow of others' expectations.

For the record, V is skipped because it didn't take itself seriously, VII is skipped because I still don't know what the f*** that thing was trying to do, IX wasn't originally meant as a mainline FF game, XI is online, and XII remains unplayed.

It seems to me that overall the series has been trying to become more mature. I actually read this interview as being an attempt to either retcon the entire series, or an explanation of more recent times. But it doesn't seem to hold up over the long run.

While I at first agreed with the sentiment, I realized that the two aren't always mutually exclusive: I loved IX, because of its rich characters and colorful world. But I'm not going to pretend that it didn't try to wow us visually as well.

Again though, this explanation isn't completely satisfactory. I, for example, really liked all three of the SNES games, but I'm seriously turned off by the ones that started on the Playstation, with the glaring exception of IX. In fact, I still like those four games, and I was at quite different ages when I played them.

I agree that the new games are just as cliched as the old ones (although I give IV a pass for starting many of those cliches). But I fervently disagree that there wasn't a shift when CD's came around. Perhaps FMV and storage space just let the developers finally "realize their vision," which made me realize that I never cared for the full vision in the first place (IX excepted!). Perhaps the rampant success of VII made the developers think "hey, this sells!" and thus to run with "this." Perhaps it was just a changing of the guard, as folks like Nomura began to take over where Sakaguchi and co. once tread.

All I know is that somewhere along the way, the games felt different to me, and I know from speaking with many people that I'm far from the only one. Shoot, I can't be the only one, or the series wouldn't have sold tons better after VII came out.

The issue I have (and this is to address everyone, not just Johann) is that there's absolutely no neat-and-tidy explanation for what happened (from my perspective: I know some folks enjoy both. I even quoted one!) I can't say "the old ones were more mature!" because the plots and characters are just as eye-rolling now as they were then (Gau anyone?). I can't say they take themselves far too seriously nowadays when the SNES ones tried to tackle teen pregnancy and attempted suicide. It can't even be the characters, because I like V, but the game doesn't feature any cast to speak of.I can't say it was a focus on the pretty visuals when IX has so many cutscenes, and glories in doing so.

It ain't the tech, it ain't the themes, it ain't anything I can really put my finger on. Nonetheless, I'd be lying if I didn't admit that something about the newer games generally rings hollow for me. I have to go with Rubang on this one: I don't begrudge Final Fantasy for "leaving me," I don't begrudge it for changing, and I don't think that the new ones are objectively any worse than the old ones (in fact, sales figures argue that they're objectively better). But I have to say that at the end of the day, the newer ones generally aren't for me anymore. I hope that changes, but if it doesn't life will go on.